| |
|
|
Hey [you]! If you haven't noticed, this is now the old digibutter forums. Go over to the new site!
digibutter.nerr
It's Hi-Technicaaal!
|
| Legalizing marijuana |
| Yes |
|
50% |
[ 18 ] |
| No |
|
50% |
[ 18 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 36 |
|
| Author |
Message |
Cid
Lord Krump
Joined: 21 Apr 2007
Posts: 7880
HP: 60 MP: 2 Lives: 0
|
 Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:01 pm
|
 |
|
| Zelnor wrote: | | Franish wrote: |
| Quote: | | The Law is mostly made to protect the few from the idiocity of the masses. |
The other way around. |
If it's so good, I wonder why it is illegal in the first place. |
A similar question can be asked: If tobacco's so bad, why is it legal in the first place? Not that I agree with making tobacco illegal, of course, but you see the point.
The main reason marijuana's illegal was for a political thing that happened a long time ago that resulted in it being banned; over time, propaganda and pseudo-science arose to provide a reason for why it was banned.
Last edited by Lord Krump on Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:04 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Bartz Klauser
BAMFing ARCHER
Werewolf
Joined: 27 Sep 2007
Posts: 7637
HP: 100 MP: 5 Lives: 4
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:02 pm
|
|
|
| Zelnor wrote: | | Franish wrote: |
| Quote: | | The Law is mostly made to protect the few from the idiocity of the masses. |
The other way around. |
I congratulate you on not being jaded and / or arrogant as much as I am.
Though legalizing it just to clean up the crime statistics wouldn't help.
If it's so good, I wonder why it is illegal in the first place. |
Ask yourself that about cigarettes, except in reverse.
If they are so bad, I wonder why it's legal in the first place. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CFH
Ligador
Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 5136
HP: 100 MP: 6 Lives: 2
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:14 pm
|
|
|
You know why these discussions get so heated?
Because crime is hardly predictable. Yet here you are, trying to predict what would happen to crime rate if a certain course of action is taken. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bartz Klauser
BAMFing ARCHER
Werewolf
Joined: 27 Sep 2007
Posts: 7637
HP: 100 MP: 5 Lives: 4
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:32 pm
|
|
|
| Jumpin' Jack Flash wrote: | You know why these discussions get so heated?
Because crime is hardly predictable. Yet here you are, trying to predict what would happen to crime rate if a certain course of action is taken. |
But, if marijuana were legalized, then drug cartels that survive off of the distribution of illegal weed would lose their business, thus lessening crime rate from them. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
~A color is just a color~
Frozenwinters
Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 25292
HP: 1 MP: 0 Lives: 4
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:37 pm
|
|
|
|
I've never heard of alcohol or tobacco leading to ecstasy or crystal meth. I have in fact heard on almost all occasions of marijuana doing that. It's not that the drug is dangerous itself, it's that the drug leads to pretty dangerous shit. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cid
Lord Krump
Joined: 21 Apr 2007
Posts: 7880
HP: 60 MP: 2 Lives: 0
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:31 pm
|
|
|
| Frozenwinters wrote: | | I've never heard of alcohol or tobacco leading to ecstasy or crystal meth. I have in fact heard on almost all occasions of marijuana doing that. It's not that the drug is dangerous itself, it's that the drug leads to pretty dangerous shit. |
Where did you hear of it having a much higher chance of leading to more dangerous drugs from? That's one of the key points about this debate: the huge amount of misinformation that is attributed to marijuana use.
In reality, there is no hard evidence that leads credence to the idea that marijuana does raise the possibility of one wanting to do other drugs. It's about as likely to lead someone to ecstasy as tobacco or alcohol is; and by that, we mean that it isn't very likely at all.
Plus, a good reason why you might not be hearing that alcohol or tobacco tend to lead individuals to harder drugs is because alcohol and tobacco are already huge businesses, and are major players in the economy. Spreading too much negativity about the substances- aside from responsibility reminders and risk warnings- wouldn't be good for the market.
As metioned earlier in this thread, you are likely to see the government and public services argue that it is harmful, whereas you are likelier to see private universities and independent research groups conclude that marijuana really isn't as harmful as everyone claims it to be. Why would the government be lying to us? What I brought up in my previous post can help explain that.
| Quote: | | But, if marijuana were legalized, then drug cartels that survive off of the distribution of illegal weed would lose their business, thus lessening crime rate from them. |
Which is the point. It is logical to conclude that crime rates would be affected; and by that, less crime due to less criminal syndicates. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
~A color is just a color~
Frozenwinters
Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 25292
HP: 1 MP: 0 Lives: 4
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:43 am
|
|
|
| Franish wrote: | | Frozenwinters wrote: | | I've never heard of alcohol or tobacco leading to ecstasy or crystal meth. I have in fact heard on almost all occasions of marijuana doing that. It's not that the drug is dangerous itself, it's that the drug leads to pretty dangerous shit. |
Where did you hear of it having a much higher chance of leading to more dangerous drugs from? That's one of the key points about this debate: the huge amount of misinformation that is attributed to marijuana use. |
I heard this from real people, who really do it, and have gone through it all. And all the people I know that found marijuana soon found dangerous drugs afterwards. I don't listen to the shit the teachers that come in tell me, I listen to what has happened before my eyes.
Where do you get your uneducated information? :) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bartz Klauser
BAMFing ARCHER
Werewolf
Joined: 27 Sep 2007
Posts: 7637
HP: 100 MP: 5 Lives: 4
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:51 am
|
|
|
| Frozenwinters wrote: | | Franish wrote: | | Frozenwinters wrote: | | I've never heard of alcohol or tobacco leading to ecstasy or crystal meth. I have in fact heard on almost all occasions of marijuana doing that. It's not that the drug is dangerous itself, it's that the drug leads to pretty dangerous shit. |
Where did you hear of it having a much higher chance of leading to more dangerous drugs from? That's one of the key points about this debate: the huge amount of misinformation that is attributed to marijuana use. |
I heard this from real people, who really do it, and have gone through it all. And all the people I know that found marijuana soon found dangerous drugs afterwards. I don't listen to the shit the teachers that come in tell me, I listen to what has happened before my eyes.
Where do you get your uneducated information?  |
How responsible were these people? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
~A color is just a color~
Frozenwinters
Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 25292
HP: 1 MP: 0 Lives: 4
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:55 am
|
|
|
| Laharl wrote: | | Frozenwinters wrote: | | Franish wrote: | | Frozenwinters wrote: | | I've never heard of alcohol or tobacco leading to ecstasy or crystal meth. I have in fact heard on almost all occasions of marijuana doing that. It's not that the drug is dangerous itself, it's that the drug leads to pretty dangerous shit. |
Where did you hear of it having a much higher chance of leading to more dangerous drugs from? That's one of the key points about this debate: the huge amount of misinformation that is attributed to marijuana use. |
I heard this from real people, who really do it, and have gone through it all. And all the people I know that found marijuana soon found dangerous drugs afterwards. I don't listen to the shit the teachers that come in tell me, I listen to what has happened before my eyes.
Where do you get your uneducated information? :) |
How responsible were these people? |
One was pretty darn responsible. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bartz Klauser
BAMFing ARCHER
Werewolf
Joined: 27 Sep 2007
Posts: 7637
HP: 100 MP: 5 Lives: 4
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:59 am
|
|
|
| Frozenwinters wrote: | | Laharl wrote: | | Frozenwinters wrote: | | Franish wrote: | | Frozenwinters wrote: | | I've never heard of alcohol or tobacco leading to ecstasy or crystal meth. I have in fact heard on almost all occasions of marijuana doing that. It's not that the drug is dangerous itself, it's that the drug leads to pretty dangerous shit. |
Where did you hear of it having a much higher chance of leading to more dangerous drugs from? That's one of the key points about this debate: the huge amount of misinformation that is attributed to marijuana use. |
I heard this from real people, who really do it, and have gone through it all. And all the people I know that found marijuana soon found dangerous drugs afterwards. I don't listen to the shit the teachers that come in tell me, I listen to what has happened before my eyes.
Where do you get your uneducated information? |
How responsible were these people? |
One was pretty darn responsible. |
Funny, 'cause I know some pretty irresponsible Juniors that have been doing weed for over a year and a half now, and they still haven't gone over to anything. As well as some really responsible seniors. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PEPSIMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!
Cherry
Vampire
Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 22614
HP: 65 MP: 6 Lives: 0
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:48 am
|
|
|
I should take this time to say that I don't actually recommend the use of Marijuana, but we would benefit from it's legalization more than if we kept it illegal.
It's a double-standard. It's use isn't recommended, but the legalization would have distinct anti-crime benefits. Really, it will be just like cigarettes, in that people who use it are morons and completely irresponsible for their lives. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cid
Lord Krump
Joined: 21 Apr 2007
Posts: 7880
HP: 60 MP: 2 Lives: 0
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 1:43 pm
|
|
|
| Frozenwinters wrote: | | I heard this from real people, who really do it, and have gone through it all. And all the people I know that found marijuana soon found dangerous drugs afterwards. I don't listen to the shit the teachers that come in tell me, I listen to what has happened before my eyes. |
The most obvious counter argument is that a large amount of people claim to know individuals who do use marijuana and don't find other drugs more tempting. Plus, how many people do you know who do marijuana? 10? 20? All small numbers when compared to the total amount of people who use marijuana.
Either way, this is just another case of "he said this, she said that." I believe this is a well-known fallacy, and that there's a name for this fallacy, but I can't put my finger on it.
Recounts of personal experiences based on what people have told one do not hold merit in serious debates; what does hold merit would be arguments based on legitimate research that can be referenced to by anyone. It's like in religious debates where people say that God is real because "they can talk to Him in their prayers, and He responds." Dismissable; it provides no real proof because it only applies to the individual who made the claim.
| Quote: | | Where do you get your uneducated information? [/color] |
I base my stance on non-government research and private studies. I've also provided links to legitimate studies supporting my claims, something you've yet to do for your own. If what I'm providing is "uneducated information," then what is educated information?
| Quote: | | One was pretty darn responsible. |
And I know plenty of "pretty darn responsible" people who use marijuana and don't find other drugs tempting, and I know plenty of people who know plenty of people who don't find marijuana tempting, too. See the problem with this method of debate? And then, we need to look at how you use the word "responsible." How are we to know if you're telling the truth? How are we to know your standards of responsibility?
Last edited by Lord Krump on Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CFH
Ligador
Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 5136
HP: 100 MP: 6 Lives: 2
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 5:24 pm
|
|
|
| Laharl wrote: | | Jumpin' Jack Flash wrote: | You know why these discussions get so heated?
Because crime is hardly predictable. Yet here you are, trying to predict what would happen to crime rate if a certain course of action is taken. |
But, if marijuana were legalized, then drug cartels that survive off of the distribution of illegal weed would lose their business, thus lessening crime rate from them. |
Funny, you don't consider the fact that if they lose their "job" of now, they either die, or become other sorts of criminal.
You wanna hear the truth? Several countries tried legalizing marijuana, and none of them got equal results. Some got lower crime rates, some others got higher crime rates, some barely changed... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
and I control the decks
carfilledwithfish
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 3988
HP: 88 MP: 7 Lives: 0
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:59 pm
|
|
|
Here's a site with lots of info on marijuana, why it should be legalized, etc.
http://abovetheignorance.org/index.html
I haven't read everything on it, there's a LOT.
Also; the only effect weed has had on me is that I'm more interested in dancing and reggae than I used to be. :B |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cid
Lord Krump
Joined: 21 Apr 2007
Posts: 7880
HP: 60 MP: 2 Lives: 0
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:18 pm
|
|
|
| Jumpin' Jack Flash wrote: | | Funny, you don't consider the fact that if they lose their "job" of now, they either die |
If the criminals are eliminated, wouldn't that be a good thing?
| Quote: | | or become other sorts of criminal. |
I would imagine that it would be quite hard to impossible to wander in to the coke or whatever business and work one's way up again once they fall to nothing due to their marijuana empire collapsing, and the crime bosses who are already in place would no doubt be unhappy at the prospect of new competition. They may become other sorts of criminals, but the key is they wouldn't be as big as they used to be, and the global legalization of marijuana would pretty much remove the need for organized crime to provide marijuana.
| Quote: | | You wanna hear the truth? Several countries tried legalizing marijuana, and none of them got equal results. Some got lower crime rates, some others got higher crime rates, some barely changed... |
Let's take these factors in to consideration: did these nations try it at different times, or at the same time? Were these small nations, or big nations? The key would be to push global legalization of marijuana (Or at least legalization in most of the major economic players.) If that would happen, corporations profiting off of marijuana would rise and naturally replace criminal syndicates on a worldwide scale. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
|
|
