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Hey [you]! If you haven't noticed, this is now the old digibutter forums. Go over to the new site!
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It's Hi-Technicaaal!
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Dark Lord Eternal Dragus
Joined: 15 Mar 2008 Posts: 3607
HP: 100 MP: 10 Lives: 0
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Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:46 am
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"The history of America is one of tragedy turned into triumph. And so a war over secession became an opportunity to set the captives free. An attack on Pearl Harbor led to a wave of freedom rolling across the Atlantic and Pacific. An Iron Curtain was punctured by democratic values, new institutions at home, and strong international partnerships abroad.
After 9/11, our calling was to write a new chapter in the American story. To devise new strategies and build new alliances, to secure our homeland and safeguard our values, and to serve a just cause abroad. We were ready. Americans were united. Friends around the world stood shoulder to shoulder with us. We had the might and moral-suasion that was the legacy of generations of Americans. The tide of history seemed poised to turn, once again, toward hope.
But then everything changed.
We did not finish the job against al Qaeda in Afghanistan. We did not develop new capabilities to defeat a new enemy, or launch a comprehensive strategy to dry up the terrorists' base of support. We did not reaffirm our basic values, or secure our homeland.
Instead, we got a color-coded politics of fear. Patriotism as the possession of one political party. The diplomacy of refusing to talk to other countries. A rigid 20th century ideology that insisted that the 21st century's stateless terrorism could be defeated through the invasion and occupation of a state. A deliberate strategy to misrepresent 9/11 to sell a war against a country that had nothing to do with 9/11.
And so, a little more than a year after that bright September day, I was in the streets of Chicago again, this time speaking at a rally in opposition to war in Iraq. I did not oppose all wars, I said. I was a strong supporter of the war in Afghanistan. But I said I could not support "a dumb war, a rash war" in Iraq. I worried about a " U.S. occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences" in the heart of the Muslim world. I pleaded that we "finish the fight with bin Ladin and al Qaeda."
The political winds were blowing in a different direction. The President was determined to go to war. There was just one obstacle: the U.S. Congress. Nine days after I spoke, that obstacle was removed. Congress rubber-stamped the rush to war, giving the President the broad and open-ended authority he uses to this day. With that vote, Congress became co-author of a catastrophic war. And we went off to fight on the wrong battlefield, with no appreciation of how many enemies we would create, and no plan for how to get out.
Because of a war in Iraq that should never have been authorized and should never have been waged, we are now less safe than we were before 9/11.
According to the National Intelligence Estimate, the threat to our homeland from al Qaeda is "persistent and evolving." Iraq is a training ground for terror, torn apart by civil war. Afghanistan is more violent than it has been since 2001. Al Qaeda has a sanctuary in Pakistan. Israel is besieged by emboldened enemies, talking openly of its destruction. Iran is now presenting the broadest strategic challenge to the United States in the Middle East in a generation. Groups affiliated with or inspired by al Qaeda operate worldwide. Six years after 9/11, we are again in the midst of a "summer of threat," with bin Ladin and many more terrorists determined to strike in the United States.
What's more, in the dark halls of Abu Ghraib and the detention cells of Guantanamo, we have compromised our most precious values. What could have been a call to a generation has become an excuse for unchecked presidential power. A tragedy that united us was turned into a political wedge issue used to divide us.
It is time to turn the page. It is time to write a new chapter in our response to 9/11.
Just because the President misrepresents our enemies does not mean we do not have them. The terrorists are at war with us. The threat is from violent extremists who are a small minority of the world's 1.3 billion Muslims, but the threat is real. They distort Islam. They kill man, woman and child; Christian and Hindu, Jew and Muslim. They seek to create a repressive caliphate. To defeat this enemy, we must understand who we are fighting against, and what we are fighting for.
The President would have us believe that every bomb in Baghdad is part of al Qaeda's war against us, not an Iraqi civil war. He elevates al Qaeda in Iraq -- which didn't exist before our invasion -- and overlooks the people who hit us on 9/11, who are training new recruits in Pakistan. He lumps together groups with very different goals: al Qaeda and Iran, Shiite militias and Sunni insurgents. He confuses our mission.
And worse -- he is fighting the war the terrorists want us to fight. Bin Ladin and his allies know they cannot defeat us on the field of battle or in a genuine battle of ideas. But they can provoke the reaction we've seen in Iraq: a misguided invasion of a Muslim country that sparks new insurgencies, ties down our military, busts our budgets, increases the pool of terrorist recruits, alienates America, gives democracy a bad name, and prompts the American people to question our engagement in the world.
By refusing to end the war in Iraq, President Bush is giving the terrorists what they really want, and what the Congress voted to give them in 2002: a U.S. occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences.
It is time to turn the page. When I am President, we will wage the war that has to be won, with a comprehensive strategy with five elements: getting out of Iraq and on to the right battlefield in Afghanistan and Pakistan; developing the capabilities and partnerships we need to take out the terrorists and the world's most deadly weapons; engaging the world to dry up support for terror and extremism; restoring our values; and securing a more resilient homeland."
Taken from the mouth of Barack Obama. I could not agree more, and definitely want this man to be the next president of the United States of America. Iraq =/= anything to do with 9/11. I always wondered what was up with connections between the two being spoken of by the Republicans. Well, I see them as what they are, simply lies.
I once saw a picture of a large billboard. Somewhere in the northern United States, I cannot recall which state. It beared a large, full-color image of the twin towers burning. Above it, it said "Don't vote Democrat."
Words do not describe how sickening I found this, but fortunately, I heard that the community was disgusted by it, and Democrats and Republicans alike in the area successfully had it taken down.
One of John McCain's own staff members said that a terrorist attack would help his campaign. Now, I for one won't be fooled by the GOP's fear-mongering, or think that leaving Iraq will "OH MY GOD BRING THE TERRORISTS OVER HERE!"
I firmly believe leaving that place will hold far less consequences than staying. Besides, we will be going across the terrorists' doorsteps, into Pakistan. After all, it is from Pakistan and Syria that many insurgents are trained in and come into Iraq from.
Follow this up with completely isolating Iran politically, and we should see some stability. Of course, this is all only my opinion, so please don't take it any other way.
There are many other points I could have covered in this thread, such as Barack's plans for a 21st century security instead of a 20th century security, his plans to fix a broken economy, and his plans to make sure China plays by international rules. However, I'll simply stop now, and state my opinion.
I support Barack Obama for president. I feel that if he delivers on his statements, he will help my country greatly. Feel free to post how you feel. However, do not bait flame, get into what I anticipate to be "We're racist if we don't vote for him!" jokes, and other nonsense. Just state your opinion on who you are voting for, (Or, in cases such as mine, if you were old enough who you would vote for.)
(Europeans welcome! Feel free to post how you feel about the man as well, if you care about the election at all, of course.) |
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Tails Doll
Joined: 04 Jun 2007 Posts: 30513
HP: 100 MP: 3 Lives: 0
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Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:04 am
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Barack Obama proves that America is not a bad country. I trust him to undo what damage George W Bush caused, and I trust him to improve this country even further. |
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MsDevin92
Joined: 23 Oct 2007 Posts: 47446
HP: 95 MP: 5 Lives: 0
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Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:13 pm
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Obama is my political hero. Looking at him and what he plans to do is like seeing all my hopes and dreams about the world being a good place actually coming true, in spite of being let down over and over so many times in the past. Just when I thought we were going to crash and burn in the future, he shows up. It's a turning point.
Also, WHAT THE HELL @ that sign you mentioned. Lies and slander. D:< |
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President Brak Obama
Joined: 22 May 2008 Posts: 312
HP: 99 MP: 10 Lives: 0
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Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:32 pm
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You people do realize once Obama is elected he'll immediately pull our troops out of Iraq and tear down the border? These are both very bad things.
For one, if we pull out of Iraq immediately.
1. Everyone will still kill each other. The US military was the last thing that kept any order over Iraq and the democracy we tried to set up in Iraq just fell apart completely.
2. Iraq will likely still refuse to give us oil, resulting in the US having to take it from Antartica. Which, sadly, has one of the largest preservations of wildlife in the world.
And if we tear down the border, here's what'll happen.
1. Since most people who come over the border are poor and looking for work, they can't afford to live in anywhere but a slum, thus increasing the crime rate.
2. It'll be harder for average American citizens to find a decent paying job, since illegal-immigrants will work for minimum wage and thus decrease our paying standards.
The only good thing opening the borders will do is help the economy and maybe the police department. |
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Cid Lord Krump
Joined: 21 Apr 2007 Posts: 7880
HP: 60 MP: 2 Lives: 0
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Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 6:02 pm
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Nah, they shouldn't have taken down the sign; instead, others should have added "or Republican" to it. Both political parties suck; we need a president who has both liberal and conservative views. Presidents who are too far on either side will mess up things. Also, so you know, both political parties use exaggerations to create fear, but in different ways- Republicans with terrorists, Democrats with the environmental problems. Both problems, but both exaggerated.
I agree that we are fighting the wrong war; Iraq has little (if anything) to do with the people who caused 9/11. We should be searching for and bombing them instead of a country that doesn't pose a threat to us.
I don't believe we should pull the troops out immediately, however. The USA made the mess, so it should clean it up, instead of letting it rot.
I don't really trust the democrats with immigration issues. I believe we should have strict regulations on illegal immigration, instead of loosening it up. We don't want overpopulation, or too much job competition. |
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MsDevin92
Joined: 23 Oct 2007 Posts: 47446
HP: 95 MP: 5 Lives: 0
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Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 6:06 pm
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Lord Crump wrote: | Nah, they shouldn't have taken down the sign; instead, others should have added "and Republicans" to it. Both political parties suck; we need a president who has both liberal and conservative views. Presidents who are too far on either side will mess up things. Also, so you know, both political parties use exaggerations to create fear, but in different ways- Republicans with terrorists, Democrats with the environmental problems. Both problems, but both exaggerated.
I agree that we are fighting the wrong war; Iraq has little (if anything) to do with the people who caused 9/11. We should be searching for and bombing them instead of a country that doesn't pose a threat to us.
I don't believe we should pull the troops out immediately, however. The USA made the mess, so it should clean it up, instead of letting it rot.
I don't really trust the liberals with immigration issues. I believe we should have strict regulations on illegal immigration, instead of loosening it up. We don't want overpopulation, or too much job competition. |
Dammit Lord Crump, stop being so smart and awesome about everything and making me agree with you. D:
lol j/k.
I guess a third-party president with nicely balanced views would be helpful, and you certainly can't pick a candidate based on party alone. Sadly, if such a person did come along, all the bureaucracy or whatever you call it would prevent them from getting votes if the two major sides felt threatened. |
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Bartz Klauser BAMFing ARCHER Werewolf
Joined: 27 Sep 2007 Posts: 7637
HP: 100 MP: 5 Lives: 4
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Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 6:27 pm
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Y'know what I've noticed after being in America for one month?
How horribly one-sided the Iraq war is.
1) Only the deaths of the American soldiers are ever mentioned. No one ever mentions how many Iraqis died. They're humans too.
2) HOW they keep the peace is never mentioned. There's something suspicious there.
3) Isn't it rather ironic that this "War against Terrorism" is turning to American troops to appear like their enemies?
The Iraq War is not jutified, and is what me and the rest of my family believe just an excuse to conquer Iraq.
I support Obama, and I do believe that they should be more lax with the immigration policies.
1) Those people would only (would, correct me if I'm wrong) come if they wished to have a job. So why not do that? |
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The Axolotl Sympathist Geno Werewolf
Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 8754
HP: 100 MP: 4 Lives: 1
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Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:10 pm
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Obama would be a great president, but one problem would arise, and I'm sure of it.
Bush had 8 long years to destroy the economy and piledrive our debt into oblivion.
Obama has only 4 years to fix it before the next election, which IS physically impossible. What's gonna happen is that in the next election, the Republicans are going to bash Obama for not fixing the debt.
And since about 90% of Americans are the stupidest things I've seen in my life, I know that we as a country will end up being Republicanized again.
Here's my example:
Obama: Hey guys, I'm president, let's fix this country up! (Debt becomes less and economy is getting better)
-4 years later-
Republicans: LOOK! LOOK! You let a Democrat into office and he failed at fixing out debt and economy 100%
America: Let's go with the Republicans because they said something interesting!!
Yeah, go Obama, but he'd better be ready for what happens in the 2012 elections. |
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President Brak Obama
Joined: 22 May 2008 Posts: 312
HP: 99 MP: 10 Lives: 0
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Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:20 pm
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Lord Crump wrote: | Nah, they shouldn't have taken down the sign; instead, others should have added "and Republicans" to it. Both political parties suck; we need a president who has both liberal and conservative views. Presidents who are too far on either side will mess up things. Also, so you know, both political parties use exaggerations to create fear, but in different ways- Republicans with terrorists, Democrats with the environmental problems. Both problems, but both exaggerated.
I agree that we are fighting the wrong war; Iraq has little (if anything) to do with the people who caused 9/11. We should be searching for and bombing them instead of a country that doesn't pose a threat to us.
I don't believe we should pull the troops out immediately, however. The USA made the mess, so it should clean it up, instead of letting it rot.
I don't really trust the liberals with immigration issues. I believe we should have strict regulations on illegal immigration, instead of loosening it up. We don't want overpopulation, or too much job competition. |
That's basically what I just said. lern2use originality.
And the War in Iraq is basically this.
1. The U.S. Government realizes America will be running low on oil in a few years. 2. Al-Qaeda operatives hijack a few planes and run them into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. 3. The U.S. Government uses Al-Qaeda, terrorism, and weapons of mass destruction as an excuse to invade Iraq and take more of its oil. (9-11 was the fault of Al-Qaeda, not the entire country of Iraq). 4. America starts a war over 7 years and continuing in Iraq without getting the oil they wanted.
Americans aren't the bad guys as a whole, blame our government for distorting the image of the Middle-East as a way to force war on them. |
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Bartz Klauser BAMFing ARCHER Werewolf
Joined: 27 Sep 2007 Posts: 7637
HP: 100 MP: 5 Lives: 4
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Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:23 pm
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Brak Obama wrote: | Lord Crump wrote: | Nah, they shouldn't have taken down the sign; instead, others should have added "and Republicans" to it. Both political parties suck; we need a president who has both liberal and conservative views. Presidents who are too far on either side will mess up things. Also, so you know, both political parties use exaggerations to create fear, but in different ways- Republicans with terrorists, Democrats with the environmental problems. Both problems, but both exaggerated.
I agree that we are fighting the wrong war; Iraq has little (if anything) to do with the people who caused 9/11. We should be searching for and bombing them instead of a country that doesn't pose a threat to us.
I don't believe we should pull the troops out immediately, however. The USA made the mess, so it should clean it up, instead of letting it rot.
I don't really trust the liberals with immigration issues. I believe we should have strict regulations on illegal immigration, instead of loosening it up. We don't want overpopulation, or too much job competition. |
That's basically what I just said. lern2use originality.
And the War in Iraq is basically this.
1. The U.S. Government realizes America will be running low on oil in a few years. 2. Al-Qaeda operatives hijack a few planes and run them into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. 3. The U.S. Government uses Al-Qaeda, terrorism, and weapons of mass destruction as an excuse to invade Iraq and take more of its oil. (9-11 was the fault of Al-Qaeda, not the entire country of Iraq). 4. America starts a war over 7 years and continuing in Iraq without getting the oil they wanted.
Americans aren't the bad guys as a whole, blame our government for distorting the image of the Middle-East as a way to force war on them. |
That's it in a nutshell. And for all we know, Al-Qaeda may not even exist, and Osama bin Laden may not be an evil terrorist. As my dad says, it's all an excuse for oil. Despite the fact that they're tossing lives around like...i dunno. |
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Poison Super Postman Jailed Vampire
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 6363
HP: 100 MP: 10 Lives: 11
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Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:09 pm
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Neither candidate really is spectacular.
Obama is an idealist, but even as an idealist he is shifting his opinion and positions on things, in order to get all the votes he needs, his promise of change, will be the only thing that changes. I understand he needs the votes, but he has already softened his position on Iraq, in a few months he might even sound the "Stay the course" horn. He has an understanding of racial issues, but I'm not sure if he could step up to the plate. by that I mean he would go about the problem the wrong way. much like Bush did for the "No Child Left Behind" Mandate. It looks fantastic on paper first glance, but the actual effect is negative. he doesn't seem to have an interest in military. if America was attacked I wouldn't know how he would handle it. The advantage of having Obama is simply change. A democrat for a republican
McCain Is obviously going to be the candidate most of you are going to hate automatically( due to the media's left tilt,and the assumption that he must be a 3rd term for bush.) He honestly has no handle on the economy. he is going to stay the course on the war in Iraq, and will probably follow up with a campaign in Iran. An up from Bush though. is simply Busch, Cindy McCain Johnny's wife runs a beer distributer company. now you ask how does this help us, Simple. Cost of transportation will go down. Gas prices will stabilize might even go down. under McCain.
Sjust my input. |
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Logic King vg Vampire
Joined: 19 May 2007 Posts: 2032
HP: 90 MP: 10 Lives: 0
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Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:38 am
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The middle east has always been in turmoil and will continue to because of its culture, geography, and government. Regardless of what we do, the region is going to have problems. At that, we went into Iraq because we wanted a US base in the middle east and we wanted to spread that base. It is a matter of control.
I have more to say but it is rather late. For a bit of shocking information look at the project for the new american century. It really is a twisted plan if you can see what is going on there. |
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Cudge123 Cherrim
Joined: 07 Jul 2007 Posts: 2301
HP: 50 MP: 8 Lives: 0
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Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:56 am
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The only reason Hillary Clinton wants Obama to be president is so that when he's assassinated in office, she becomes president. |
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hai Spiny
Joined: 05 Jan 2008 Posts: 27193
HP: 100 MP: 6 Lives: 1
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Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:58 am
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Cudge123 wrote: | The only reason Hillary Clinton wants Obama to be president is so that when he's assassinated in office, she becomes president. |
The fact that she brought up his possible death in office twice doesn't help either. |
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Cudge123 Cherrim
Joined: 07 Jul 2007 Posts: 2301
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Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:11 am
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I know. To think she wants to be president... |
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