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It feels like monday
Jenimoi
Jailed
Joined: 01 Dec 2008
Posts: 185
HP: 100 MP: 10 Lives: 0
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 Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:36 pm
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One would think that after the big Communist scare we all had, that socialism would be the last thing on our minds.
But, it seems to be what may happen. Government is giving 'bailouts' with strings attached, essentially allowing them significant control over corporations, and other corporations are basically asking for the government to take over, like the auto makers who want money.
This isn't entirely a bad thing. And it doesn't necessarily mean we're becoming socialist, but it definitely pays to see things from a conflict perspective AND a functional perspective.
Our government isn't socialist, and it never has been, but we all know people pull invisible strings. Some freedoms are being taken away or denied. If we, the people, do absolutely nothing to act, we may very well end up with a socialist government.
If those in power can not handle power, it is the duty of the people to revoke said power. |
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oar
Super Maiq the Liar
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 17919
HP: 100 MP: 10 Lives: 0
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| Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:49 pm
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If it's bound to happen, I'll probably just move to England. It's where I was born, and I could always try to work at RARE if I decide to go down the "game programming" career path instead of a Culinary one. |
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lolz
Shrowser
Joined: 16 Jul 2007
Posts: 8814
HP: 100 MP: 4 Lives: 0
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| Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:04 pm
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Um, just so you know... The auto business isn't getting any money. I would know, my family's in that boat. |
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It feels like monday
Jenimoi
Jailed
Joined: 01 Dec 2008
Posts: 185
HP: 100 MP: 10 Lives: 0
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| Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:17 pm
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| Shrowser wrote: | | Um, just so you know... The auto business isn't getting any money. I would know, my family's in that boat. |
I never said they're getting it. I said they're asking for it. Also, no need to bring your family into it. |
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lolz
Shrowser
Joined: 16 Jul 2007
Posts: 8814
HP: 100 MP: 4 Lives: 0
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| Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:27 pm
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| Jenimoi wrote: | | Shrowser wrote: | | Um, just so you know... The auto business isn't getting any money. I would know, my family's in that boat. |
I never said they're getting it. I said they're asking for it. Also, no need to bring your family into it. |
Well, you're making the auto-makers sound like the bad people who are the ones taking money. Sure, they WANT money. Hell, everybody wants money, but the banks are to blame. |
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Shadow Kingdom
Spell Seal
Burning
Joined: 04 Aug 2007
Posts: 12201
HP: 80 MP: 0 Lives: 3
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| Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:38 pm
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Really the Auto-Makers deserve the money more than the banks. The banks just sit on the bailout money. |
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The Groovy Shroom
KinopioT
Joined: 07 Nov 2008
Posts: 16
HP: 97 MP: 10 Lives: 0
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 2:57 am
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Doesn't help that the two FARTHEST left people in the country (Barack Obama and Nancy Pelosi) are running the show come January... |
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Wacko McGoose
Launching Star
Jailed
Joined: 27 Jun 2007
Posts: 2020
HP: 10 MP: 0 Lives: 0
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| Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:59 pm
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| KinopioT wrote: | | Doesn't help that the two FARTHEST left people in the country (Barack Obama and Nancy Pelosi) are running the show come January... |
[shakytext]I know... Scary, mirite?[/shakytext]
And slightly closer to where I live, Cragstine Gregoire is taxing the state with meaningless things like some sort of "light rail" crap, while she noms every last penny, yen, pence, and molecule of gold out of the state's general fund for her vacation homes and stuff... In my opinion, every extreme leftist should be infinibanned from the government. Too bad the laws of the internet don't apply to real life... Because Francis would probably be qualified to infiniban socialists.
*hopes that The Man Obama's flunkies can't track my account's IP and arrest me IRL* |
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Eh, wot
Super Slim
Vampire
Joined: 16 Jul 2007
Posts: 5041
HP: 20 MP: 1 Lives: 0
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| Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:39 pm
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| Shadow Kingdom wrote: | | Really the Auto-Makers deserve the money more than the banks. The banks just sit on the bailout money. |
*works for his grandpa on a car lot*
Cash plx. |
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Black Yoshi
Vampire
Joined: 17 Jun 2007
Posts: 14673
HP: 31 MP: 10 Lives: 1
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| Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:49 pm
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If you knew the condition of the economy in these parts, you would understand the reasoning for a bailout. Most of the jobs in my small town concern the auto industry, and the collapse of the Big Three has a large number of residents out of the job. There are five pages of legal and foreclosure notices in the papers every day, andd even the school system is on the verge of collapse due to the lack of tax money.
The auto industry is the lifeblood of the entire area. Letting the Big Three die would mean the absolute collapse of Michigan's economy. |
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Yoshio
Yoshio
Joined: 28 Nov 2007
Posts: 3589
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:16 am
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I never knew there were so many right wing folks at this forum
I feel out of place
anyway the bailouts are somthing that no one wants to do, but since we are in such a tough situation economically it is somthing that simply must be done, if the automakers do not get this money then they will collapse and we will be up a creek without a paddle. Its just a neccessary evil that we will all have to put up with to avoid disaster. We are in tough times, our economy is in trouble. It is time to stop being selfish and recognize that we are going to have to give a little bit more to the government in the way of tax dollars so it can do what needs to be done to keep us from going into a depression. I'd hate to see taxes go up but if we leave the automakers to fend for themselves then they will fail, and if they fail we're sunk. the bailouts are the lesser of two evils
and I don't know why people say Obama is a radical leftist, the man is a centrist to the extreme just log onto that political compass thing and look at where he is on it. If you actually listen to him you'll discover that he seeks common ground on both social and economic issues
I'm a big blue lib but I'm against any sort of radicalism. The past 8 years stand as a testament to the damage caused by radical rightists in power and it only stands to reason that the same results will happen with a radical leftist
the reason I support Obama is because unlike every other politician I've seen he isn't trying to pit one side against the other
anyone who says that Obama is an extreme leftist has either not been paying attention or has never met any left wing people, but they are dead wrong in either case. McCain only said that stuff because he was trying to win an election, I doubt even he believes it. (I also doubt that Obama really believed that McCain was a Bush clone) |
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Elite Nerr
Francis
Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 6974
HP: 50 MP: 3 Lives: 0
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 2:19 pm
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| Yoshio wrote: | | I'd hate to see taxes go up but if we leave the automakers to fend for themselves then they will fail, and if they fail we're sunk. |
The Big Three are going down eventually, no matter how much money we throw at them. You are suggesting that we take money from successful businesses and give it to failing businesses. That is a slow killing of our economy. They deserve to go bankrupt, just like all other poorly run failed businesses.
Sure there will be repercussions, but in a capitalist system someone will see the market opportunity (if it really exists) and those jobs will be back (without the Unions) |
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Black Yoshi
Vampire
Joined: 17 Jun 2007
Posts: 14673
HP: 31 MP: 10 Lives: 1
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 2:26 pm
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| Francis wrote: | | Yoshio wrote: | | I'd hate to see taxes go up but if we leave the automakers to fend for themselves then they will fail, and if they fail we're sunk. |
The Big Three are going down eventually, no matter how much money we throw at them. You are suggesting that we take money from successful businesses and give it to failing businesses. That is a slow killing of our economy. They deserve to go bankrupt, just like all other poorly run failed businesses.
Sure there will be repercussions, but in a capitalist system someone will see the market opportunity (if it really exists) and those jobs will be back (without the Unions) |
The reprocussions may not affect some parts of the country as bad as others, but places like Michigan and Ohio are going to se their economies crumble into ruin. Michigan already has the highest unemployment rates in the country thanks to the losses the Big Three has gone though, and if you pull the plug on them... well, I can't say the government will even have enough money to operate. I have faith in at least Ford to pull though this and find a solution.
If we don't allow the bailout, there won't be anywhere for the jobs to come back to. At least, not in my area. |
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The Axolotl Sympathist
Geno
Werewolf
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 8754
HP: 100 MP: 4 Lives: 1
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:58 pm
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| Black Yoshi wrote: | | Francis wrote: | | Yoshio wrote: | | I'd hate to see taxes go up but if we leave the automakers to fend for themselves then they will fail, and if they fail we're sunk. |
The Big Three are going down eventually, no matter how much money we throw at them. You are suggesting that we take money from successful businesses and give it to failing businesses. That is a slow killing of our economy. They deserve to go bankrupt, just like all other poorly run failed businesses.
Sure there will be repercussions, but in a capitalist system someone will see the market opportunity (if it really exists) and those jobs will be back (without the Unions) |
The reprocussions may not affect some parts of the country as bad as others, but places like Michigan and Ohio are going to se their economies crumble into ruin. Michigan already has the highest unemployment rates in the country thanks to the losses the Big Three has gone though, and if you pull the plug on them... well, I can't say the government will even have enough money to operate. I have faith in at least Ford to pull though this and find a solution.
If we don't allow the bailout, there won't be anywhere for the jobs to come back to. At least, not in my area. |
What the Big Three need to get through their heads is that bailing out is only going to corrupt the economy even more. More successful businesses have to give some of THEIR money to the auto-makers. This brings a loss of profit for these companies, who may not be able to operate after a while.
What we're looking at is a potentially catastrophic domino effect. However, it seems if the Big Three don't get bailed out, they might end up crashing and burning, causing another potential domino effect that would lead to an alternative, but still catastrophic demise for the economy. |
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Wacko McGoose
Launching Star
Jailed
Joined: 27 Jun 2007
Posts: 2020
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:15 pm
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I think unions were a bad idea. Sure, when people need to strike, unions DO help them pull off the strike. But at the same time, between strikes, unions are nomming a huge chunk out of everyone's paycheck! If it wasn't for those greedy unions, my dad would have enough extra money to get me a replacement DS for Christmas.
...................And yes I know a DS is only $129.99. But my family's bi-weekly grocery bill averages $250-$300. |
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