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Manpersonguything
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:35 pm   Reply with quote

Gawd, All this stuff about "YOUR RELIGION IS WRONG" Honestly, We have no definite proof that a god exists. It's like trying to prove to someone invincible space monkeys exist on Pluto and they control the weather. You can't. Not to be offensive, but Christians tend to do this the most, and people need to just think, This is what I think, I believe in this, They have their own thoughts, And that doesn't make them any worse.
EDIT: Also, I think this is a VERY important point. If the Christians can have a tree, or something else, Jews can put up a menorah, Why is it wrong to do this? Atheists could protest also and have just a good as a point. They have there tree, We can have our sign.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:45 pm   Reply with quote

Manpersonguything wrote:
Gawd, All this stuff about "YOUR RELIGION IS WRONG" Honestly, We have no definite proof that a god exists. It's like trying to prove to someone invincible space monkeys exist on Pluto and they control the weather. You can't. Not to be offensive, but Christians tend to do this the most, and people need to just think, This is what I think, I believe in this, They have their own thoughts, And that doesn't make them any worse.


This isn't about people trying to prove that their God exists, but rather, people upset about other people trying to disprove that their God exists. If you're stating that people should just have their own thoughts and get along, wouldn't you be against a sign that is obviously spawned from the intent to attack others beliefs?

Quote:
EDIT: Also, I think this is a VERY important point. If the Christians can have a tree, or something else, Jews can put up a menorah, Why is it wrong to do this? Atheists could protest also and have just a good as a point. They have there tree, We can have our sign.


It's wrong because their sign isn't peacefully respecting other people's beliefs, but attacking them. Neither the Menorah or Tree are saying anyone's right or wrong. The sign is; especially when it is placed next to a religious symbol like the Menorah. I bet if the sign was placed somewhere else, less people would care. However, the fact that it was placed next to other symbols is openly stating that those beliefs are wrong; and, as I stated earlier, whoever is that determined to show that someone's wrong must suffer from personal insecurity.

Also, see my point about how atheists shouldn't use such symbols, in my first post. Atheism isn't supposed to be a religion, but a lack thereof.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:02 pm   Reply with quote

That attack was completely inappropriate and tasteless.

Even if you're entitled to freedom of speech, you should know better than to attack others' beliefs, especially around this time of year.

Take the sign down, I say. It doesn't matter if it represents their belief in nothing; the Menorah and Christmas Tree are put there because it's December, and Hanukkah and Christmas are celebrated in December. Once they make up their own holiday, they can go around putting up signs and stuff like that.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:43 pm   Reply with quote

Look, let's face it, Atheism has been completely demonized by the American public. If these people don't make a stand who will?

No one.

Atheism is a belief damn it, no it's not a religion but it's a *crag* belief all the same.

This country was founded on the principles that you could say what you want, believe what you want.

SO what if they sign was offensive to Christian?

I don't see how picketing with signs stating "You Are all Sinners And Are Going To Hell." didn't justify their point.

This country is so up it's ass with Christianity that we are still "Under God."

For *crag*'s sake, you can't even get into political office without being a Christian, or was I the only one watching all the news reports acting like the rumors of Obama being a Muslim was a bad thing?

It's so *crag* stupid, hell, the Middle East is practically another *crag* religious wars all these years later! Why do you think the UN is so fed up with our bullshit?

It's unfounded, ignorant, a waste of resources!

I'm not saying all Christians are bad, I'm saying a lot of them are.

Hell, it's not even just atheists. Muslims, Jews, and even more! All it takes is a look into any public school to see how our country's youth is developing.

They are learning to be discriminatory racist ass wholes.

And if these Atheists don't stand up, if these heroes of freedom don't make their *crag* point, what will we become?

Mindless mother *crag*.

That's what.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:22 pm   Reply with quote

Popple wrote:
Look, let's face it, Atheism has been completely demonized by the American public. If these people don't make a stand who will?

No one.

Atheism is a belief damn it, no it's not a religion but it's a *crag* belief all the same.

This country was founded on the principles that you could say what you want, believe what you want.

SO what if they sign was offensive to Christian?

I don't see how picketing with signs stating "You Are all Sinners And Are Going To Hell." didn't justify their point.

This country is so up it's ass with Christianity that we are still "Under God."

For *crag*'s sake, you can't even get into political office without being a Christian, or was I the only one watching all the news reports acting like the rumors of Obama being a Muslim was a bad thing?

It's so *crag* stupid, hell, the Middle East is practically another *crag* religious wars all these years later! Why do you think the UN is so fed up with our bullshit?

It's unfounded, ignorant, a waste of resources!

I'm not saying all Christians are bad, I'm saying a lot of them are.

Hell, it's not even just atheists. Muslims, Jews, and even more! All it takes is a look into any public school to see how our country's youth is developing.

They are learning to be discriminatory racist ass wholes.

And if these Atheists don't stand up, if these heroes of freedom don't make their *crag* point, what will we become?

Mindless mother *crag*.

That's what.


I agree with this statement completely, if people didn't take religion so seriously all the time, we wouldn't have to deal with shit like this.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:48 pm   Reply with quote

Popple wrote:
Look, let's face it, Atheism has been completely demonized by the American public. If these people don't make a stand who will?

No one.

Atheism is a belief damn it, no it's not a religion but it's a *crag* belief all the same.

This country was founded on the principles that you could say what you want, believe what you want.

SO what if they sign was offensive to Christian?

I don't see how picketing with signs stating "You Are all Sinners And Are Going To Hell." didn't justify their point.

This country is so up it's ass with Christianity that we are still "Under God."

For *crag*'s sake, you can't even get into political office without being a Christian, or was I the only one watching all the news reports acting like the rumors of Obama being a Muslim was a bad thing?

It's so *crag* stupid, hell, the Middle East is practically another *crag* religious wars all these years later! Why do you think the UN is so fed up with our bullshit?

It's unfounded, ignorant, a waste of resources!

I'm not saying all Christians are bad, I'm saying a lot of them are.

Hell, it's not even just atheists. Muslims, Jews, and even more! All it takes is a look into any public school to see how our country's youth is developing.

They are learning to be discriminatory racist ass wholes.

And if these Atheists don't stand up, if these heroes of freedom don't make their *crag* point, what will we become?

Mindless mother *crag*.

That's what.


There's a difference between "standing up for your right to believe what you want" and "attacking someone else's beliefs."

Yes, people take religion a little too seriously in America. But, do you think that going out and saying that they're wrong is going to fix the problem? Is it not ironic that you're complaining about religious people being ignorant assholes for not tolerating people who are atheist and telling them what to believe, when you're claiming that openly attacking other religions is "fighting for what someone believes in?" Are you arguing that people should say "you're beliefs are all lies" instead of saying that they "choose not to believe?"

The truth of the matter is that if someone's going to fight something that they're against by doing the same thing that what they're fighting against is doing isn't going to solve any problems.

What will solve problems is- instead of making attacks to stir up controversy- to publicly express how people need to understand and accept eachother's differences. And, from what I've seen, atheists haven't been doing that to stand up to the overpowering evangelicals; they've only been prodding the bear with a stick.

You're making it sound like Christians are the only ignorant idiots. There are plenty of atheists who are similar; and when they go around telling religious people that they're wrong because they're "standing up for their beliefs," they're certainly not going to look like "heroes of freedom."
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:36 pm   Reply with quote

ima letus wrote:
Popple wrote:
Look, let's face it, Atheism has been completely demonized by the American public. If these people don't make a stand who will?

No one.

Atheism is a belief damn it, no it's not a religion but it's a *crag* belief all the same.

This country was founded on the principles that you could say what you want, believe what you want.

SO what if they sign was offensive to Christian?

I don't see how picketing with signs stating "You Are all Sinners And Are Going To Hell." didn't justify their point.

This country is so up it's ass with Christianity that we are still "Under God."

For *crag*'s sake, you can't even get into political office without being a Christian, or was I the only one watching all the news reports acting like the rumors of Obama being a Muslim was a bad thing?

It's so *crag* stupid, hell, the Middle East is practically another *crag* religious wars all these years later! Why do you think the UN is so fed up with our bullshit?

It's unfounded, ignorant, a waste of resources!

I'm not saying all Christians are bad, I'm saying a lot of them are.

Hell, it's not even just atheists. Muslims, Jews, and even more! All it takes is a look into any public school to see how our country's youth is developing.

They are learning to be discriminatory racist ass wholes.

And if these Atheists don't stand up, if these heroes of freedom don't make their *crag* point, what will we become?

Mindless mother *crag*.

That's what.


I agree with this statement completely, if people didn't take religion so seriously all the time, we wouldn't have to deal with shit like this.
I second this statement.
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Manpersonguything
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:57 pm   Reply with quote

Epic Santa wrote:
Manpersonguything wrote:
Gawd, All this stuff about "YOUR RELIGION IS WRONG" Honestly, We have no definite proof that a god exists. It's like trying to prove to someone invincible space monkeys exist on Pluto and they control the weather. You can't. Not to be offensive, but Christians tend to do this the most, and people need to just think, This is what I think, I believe in this, They have their own thoughts, And that doesn't make them any worse.


This isn't about people trying to prove that their God exists, but rather, people upset about other people trying to disprove that their God exists. If you're stating that people should just have their own thoughts and get along, wouldn't you be against a sign that is obviously spawned from the intent to attack others beliefs?

Quote:
EDIT: Also, I think this is a VERY important point. If the Christians can have a tree, or something else, Jews can put up a menorah, Why is it wrong to do this? Atheists could protest also and have just a good as a point. They have there tree, We can have our sign.


It's wrong because their sign isn't peacefully respecting other people's beliefs, but attacking them. Neither the Menorah or Tree are saying anyone's right or wrong. The sign is; especially when it is placed next to a religious symbol like the Menorah. I bet if the sign was placed somewhere else, less people would care. However, the fact that it was placed next to other symbols is openly stating that those beliefs are wrong; and, as I stated earlier, whoever is that determined to show that someone's wrong must suffer from personal insecurity.

Also, see my point about how atheists shouldn't use such symbols, in my first post. Atheism isn't supposed to be a religion, but a lack thereof.
OH NO YOU DIDN'T.
K, First of all, That sign was stating their beliefs. It said, There is no heaven nor hell ,This is all we got. It's not like we were dissing them. And if they had a sign saying there beliefs, and saying athiests are wrong, I would care one bit. That is what they beliefs, I respect that.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:35 pm   Reply with quote

Geno Claus wrote:
ima letus wrote:
Popple wrote:
Look, let's face it, Atheism has been completely demonized by the American public. If these people don't make a stand who will?

No one.

Atheism is a belief damn it, no it's not a religion but it's a *crag* belief all the same.

This country was founded on the principles that you could say what you want, believe what you want.

SO what if they sign was offensive to Christian?

I don't see how picketing with signs stating "You Are all Sinners And Are Going To Hell." didn't justify their point.

This country is so up it's ass with Christianity that we are still "Under God."

For *crag*'s sake, you can't even get into political office without being a Christian, or was I the only one watching all the news reports acting like the rumors of Obama being a Muslim was a bad thing?

It's so *crag* stupid, hell, the Middle East is practically another *crag* religious wars all these years later! Why do you think the UN is so fed up with our bullshit?

It's unfounded, ignorant, a waste of resources!

I'm not saying all Christians are bad, I'm saying a lot of them are.

Hell, it's not even just atheists. Muslims, Jews, and even more! All it takes is a look into any public school to see how our country's youth is developing.

They are learning to be discriminatory racist ass wholes.

And if these Atheists don't stand up, if these heroes of freedom don't make their *crag* point, what will we become?

Mindless mother *crag*.

That's what.


I agree with this statement completely, if people didn't take religion so seriously all the time, we wouldn't have to deal with shit like this.
I second this statement.
This is so painfully true. That means that this country is not truly a democracy then, if people are treated as such for being of a religion that they had no say in(Such as people who are born into Islam or Judaism.). It is a similar attack on religious freedom, yet no one says anything about it?
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:07 pm   Reply with quote

Cid you misunderstand the Atheists.

They aren't attacking other beliefs, they are simply stating their own.

Yes it is a bit aggressive, but is saying "Jesus is the only true Messiah" saying the same thing?

Isn't it also discounting every other belief out there?

If anything, the Atheists are simply out to prove this point, to prove how hypocritical the fanatics are.

To prove that they will attempt to call out the act which they themselves have committed.

Do you know what it is like to live in this country, to live like I do?

I must publicly refer to myself as a Christian in public just so that I am not exiled out to the farthest reaches of society.

Yes, I would love to speak out, to rally the rebels, to strike at out oppressors.

But it isn't possible, not yet.

First we must strike at the foundation, first we must erase the perceptions of false sin. Then will come the time when we can stand up and fight.

When all religious quarrels will be silenced by the coming tide of change, and we, the true paragons of freedom, will rain down upon those who dare to oppose our right to free speech and wipe them out as they have done to our forefathers.

We act as though our country is better than those in the middle east, that we don't censor the media, that we don't try to rally behind a religious shield, exiling those who dare not to believe.

But we aren't.

We are worse.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:55 pm   Reply with quote

Popple wrote:
Cid you misunderstand the Atheists.

They aren't attacking other beliefs, they are simply stating their own.

Yes it is a bit aggressive, but is saying "Jesus is the only true Messiah" saying the same thing?


It's all in the wording. As I stated, one must always be aware of those who believe differently; therefore, "I believe that Jesus is the only true Messiah" is better, as it is stated as an opinion, not as a fact. The same thing can go for atheism; "I choose not to believe in God."

Quote:
Isn't it also discounting every other belief out there?


Of course it is, that's why it's just as wrong. I'm not arguing that atheists are the only problem.

Quote:
If anything, the Atheists are simply out to prove this point, to prove how hypocritical the fanatics are.


The thing is, when people become too deeply involved with their beliefs or opinions, things get nasty. That's the problem with America right now; people can't learn to accept that they may not be right, and that they should respect others right to belief, and always consider their belief as an opinion, instead of a direct fact. Unfortunately, this seems impossible for Americans; everything has to be "black and white." Right or wrong.

Quote:
To prove that they will attempt to call out the act which they themselves have committed.


As I stated, that's not the right way to solve the problem. People are stubborn, and prodding the bull with the stick will only get you trampled. Instead, preach acceptance, instead of trying to make people look like idiots: as, if they're made to look like idiots, they'll only get angrier, and the problems will only persist.

Quote:
Do you know what it is like to live in this country, to live like I do?

I must publicly refer to myself as a Christian in public just so that I am not exiled out to the farthest reaches of society.


It depends on where you live. You'll have a hard time expressing what you really are in the Deep South and "Bible Belt" states; however, other portions of the country have become quite accepting.

It isn't as negative as you make it seem; if a broadcasting corporation with incredibly right-winged "News" teams can allow a show like Family Guy on their Sunday Night lineup- a show that commonly makes fun of Christianity (And whose creator is a known atheist)- we've come a long way in terms of acceptance.

Quote:
Yes, I would love to speak out, to rally the rebels, to strike at out oppressors.

But it isn't possible, not yet.

First we must strike at the foundation, first we must erase the perceptions of false sin. Then will come the time when we can stand up and fight.

When all religious quarrels will be silenced by the coming tide of change, and we, the true paragons of freedom, will rain down upon those who dare to oppose our right to free speech and wipe them out as they have done to our forefathers.


True acceptance will not come through aggression; people need to be gradually taught that acceptance is key, and that they can't be 100% certain that their beliefs are true. Freedom of speech is only "true freedom" when it doesn't infringe upon another person's freedom of speech, which is- unfortunately- what the whole "God exists" arguement is doing.

Quote:
We act as though our country is better than those in the middle east, that we don't censor the media, that we don't try to rally behind a religious shield, exiling those who dare not to believe.

But we aren't.

We are worse.


We may not be perfect, but we certainly aren't worse than the Middle East.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:04 am   Reply with quote

Uh, Whats wrong with the middle east? It's not like all Muslims are terrorists. Most Muslims are peaceful. Some are extremists, and rare. They are the ones who flew planes into the twin towers. Don't even go there buddy.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:11 am   Reply with quote

Manpersonguything wrote:
Uh, Whats wrong with the middle east? It's not like all Muslims are terrorists. Most Muslims are peaceful. Some are extremists, and rare. They are the ones who flew planes into the twin towers. Don't even go there buddy.


I know that most muslims are peaceful, but Islam really has nothing to do with the point, at all. Don't try to make me look religiously intolerant by automatically assuming I'm talking about a religion or race.

There are certainly far larger amounts of terrorism and warfare over there than here (We had a part to play with Iraq, but otherwise, it still would have been worse.)

We don't make it a law that women must cover their faces in public, nor do we execute homosexuals (Of course, even though there is still plenty of prejudice towards homosexuals over here, they are treated far worse in the Middle East.)

Take all of that into account, as well as the larger amount of poverty and less personal freedoms present in the Middle East. Now, of course, some spots in the Middle East are decent. I understand that. But we're talking about the Middle East as a whole. Really, how is the USA generally worse, when looking at all that I mentioned above? Explain.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:06 pm   Reply with quote

Epic Santa wrote:
Really, how is the USA generally worse, when looking at all that I mentioned above? Explain.
Now you're just putting words into his mouth. He never said anything about the USA being better/worse than the Middle East.
Uh, sorry, maybe I should rerail this topic.

I think the sign was unnecessary, as it was not a symbol of celebration, whereas the other two objects were. It seemed to be more of an attack than a celebration or symbol of peace.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:32 pm   Reply with quote

Elzilcho wrote:
Epic Santa wrote:
Really, how is the USA generally worse, when looking at all that I mentioned above? Explain.
[color=steelblue]Now you're just putting words into his mouth. He never said anything about the USA being better/worse than the Middle East.
Uh, sorry, maybe I should rerail this topic.[color]


Please re-read the post that he responded to. I stated that the USA was not worse than the Middle East, and he disagreed with my statement. By disagreeing with my statement, he did imply his opinion on whether the USA was better or worse than the Middle East.
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