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Hey [you]! If you haven't noticed, this is now the old digibutter forums. Go over to the new site!
digibutter.nerr
It's Hi-Technicaaal!
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Strawberry-san
Celeste Dimentia
Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 11104
HP: 100 MP: 0 Lives: 3
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 Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:03 am
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| Larry Koopa wrote: | | Wait, Frozen's a mod? WTF DID I MISS?!? UGH. |
Frozenwinters has been a Moderator for some time, just like ShadowArticuno... |
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Flavio
Vampire
Joined: 05 Jul 2007
Posts: 10649
HP: 4 MP: 7 Lives: 0
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| Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:12 am
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WHAT HOLY SHIT FRANCIS IS THE ADMIN FLAVIO HAD NO IDEA |
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Master of Puppets...
The Chaos Heart
Joined: 17 Jul 2007
Posts: 4568
HP: 100 MP: 6 Lives: 22
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| Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:21 am
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| Fat Tuper wrote: | It really isn't that big a deal The only thing that really matters about it is pay discrimination, imo. (And other things like that)
To answer your question, the reason these stereotypes exist is because the majority of the genders prefer other things. it's like 80% to 20%. How many guys do you know that wear pink all the time? Now how many GIRLS do you know that do that? How many girls do you know that have masculine senses of humor*? Now how many GUYS do you know that have masculine senses of humor?
*By this I mean like fart jokes and That's What She Saids, and things like that.
———————————> |
I have a theory about this.
It starts with human birth.
I believe that all humans, when they are born, are nothing.
They become what they become because of the environment they are born in.
From the moment you are born, what happens?
Gender discrimination.
If you are male, you are born with blue surrounding you.
If you are female, it's pink.
Next, the most iconic form of child manipulation.
Toys.
Even children's toy commercials are filled with sexism.
Think about it.
All the toys that involve caring for young, or cooking, or dolls have little girls in them, AND ONLY GIRLS. Not to mention the blatant color's of pink. Remember birth? The color pink, after having been surrounded by it, has caused the child to feel a sense of familiarity when they see it. So, the moment they see the little girls in pink playing with toys involving pink, they think, "Hey. That must be for me."
Same basic idea for boys, only with the color blue.
Look at the objects in and backgrounds of the commercials if you don't believe me.
Next time a hot wheels or barbie commercial comes on, tell me I'm not right.
With these ideas in mind, not only do we feel an attachment to those familiarities, we also gain a growing resentment to the opposite sex. Why? Because they have been trained to love other things. Things that aren't, well, YOUR things. They're different. SO different, you might consider them to be from another planet. They're different, and that makes them weird. Scary even. So you avoid them. You call them icky.
This grows to resentment between the two sexes. This is how sexism is born.
Now, sexism is like...well, Diabetes. It's a life threatening illness that, though it can be treated and kept under control, it never truly goes away. You'll cary it with you for the rest of your life.
Sexism is the same.
Because of the world around you, and what it has done, you will always carry that illness. People will always feel offend, and offend others over sex, or at the very least, look down on them.
Guys, you CAN'T tell me that, if you are playing a sport, and a girl decides she wants to play, you won't look down upon her, even if it's just for a second, because she's a girl, and you don't think she'll be as good.
Girls, when a guy wants to spend time with you alone, you CAN'T tell me that you don't think for even just ONE SECOND that he's going to try and get sex out of you. Even if it's just for ONE second, you'll look down on him.
It's truly pathetic that we purposely give this disease to ourselves out of our own stupidity.
It disgusts me.
As the child grows older, they are bombarded with other messages. Guys are surrounded, mostly by media, with the idea that they need to be strong and have sex with girls, and that not having sex makes them a loser.
Girls are surrounded with the fact that all men want is sex, and that they are stupid sexist pigs who couldn't solve a math problem to save their life.
And a lot of this is true.
Because we are MAKING it true.
If we would just stop though.
If we would not start classifying things to certain people because of sex, then eventually, maybe we could rid ourselves of this horrid illness.
Because it's our OWN faults.
WE are causing the problem, and it won't stop until the people of the world stop acting like morons. |
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Psst...
Die4Less
Vampire
Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 3681
HP: 95 MP: 0 Lives: 2
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| Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:00 am
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After reading all this, I fail to see why such a big idea about a gender topic was. I mean, if you don't feel comfortable, then DON'T POST. I fail to see why you all derailed a perfectly good topic.
We are all friends on this forum, so shouldn't we want to learn more about each other? I mean, it's like making a friend IRL, and having fun and st00f, but you can't really connect because you have no idea who he really is.
Who cares if someone is female in a male body? Who cares if it's Vice-Versa? Who cares if someone refers to "gender" as "sex"? Who really *crag* cares? We should want to learn more about others.
That's all I have to say. |
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Strawberry-san
Celeste Dimentia
Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 11104
HP: 100 MP: 0 Lives: 3
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| Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:16 am
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I've been in a blechish mood, as I said, being very sick, and yeah, I wasn't in the best state of mind when I let the thread bother me. I was bothered by the exclusivity of it, I guess. It encourages people to post there to avoid confusion for other members, but I can't take up on that offer when it's exclusively sex as opposed to gender. Anyway, I apologize for bothering everyone with my concerns. I always get the feeling people really dislike me for having the concerns that I do, and I don't really want that... so... yeah. >> |
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Token Nazi?
Zelnor
Joined: 01 Jul 2007
Posts: 6425
HP: 10 MP: 7 Lives: 1
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| Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:20 am
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I think most of the points I'd of made have already been made; it's largely when society has grown into and it's hard to reverse or equalize decades, if not centuries of male-power society. |
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~A color is just a color~
Frozenwinters
Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 25292
HP: 1 MP: 0 Lives: 4
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| Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:03 am
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| Celeste Dimentia wrote: | | Larry Koopa wrote: | | Wait, Frozen's a mod? WTF DID I MISS?!? UGH. |
Frozenwinters has been a Moderator for some time, just like ShadowArticuno... |
I think I've even warned Larry about 3 times. |
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CFH
Ligador
Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 5136
HP: 100 MP: 6 Lives: 2
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| Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:45 am
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| Zelnor wrote: | | I think most of the points I'd of made have already been made; it's largely when society has grown into and it's hard to reverse or equalize decades, if not centuries of male-power society. |
Not to mention cavemen were "sexist". |
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Blue Eyes wins.
Captain Blue
Joined: 21 May 2007
Posts: 15314
HP: 95 MP: 10 Lives: 2
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| Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:45 pm
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I think I need to give you all a quick lesson in U.S. History. 1955 dates the start of the African-American Civil Rights movement. Note that it ends in 1968. The beginning of the Women's Liberation movements started in 1964, meaning that until the African Americans started gaining rights, women were, according to the general consensus of history, content to be in the position they were always in. However, the moment slaves began to be freed, women demanded they be free to do anything a freedman can do and more. I'm not going to go into further detail, but let's just say that in the US, once the normal hierarchy was changed, everything went out of whack. |
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Larry Koopa
Sam
Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 16957
HP: 35 MP: 1 Lives: 0
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| Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:39 pm
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| Frozenwinters wrote: | | Celeste Dimentia wrote: | | Larry Koopa wrote: | | Wait, Frozen's a mod? WTF DID I MISS?!? UGH. |
Frozenwinters has been a Moderator for some time, just like ShadowArticuno... |
I think I've even warned Larry about 3 times. |
Really? when? |
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Dark Lord Eternal
Dragus
Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Posts: 3607
HP: 100 MP: 10 Lives: 0
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| Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:43 pm
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I definitely agree with you. Living in a backwards conservative area for most of my life, I've become so sick of my colleagues' behavior towards other races and females that I've actually donated some money to the feminist movement once or twice. |
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Cid
Lord Krump
Joined: 21 Apr 2007
Posts: 7880
HP: 60 MP: 2 Lives: 0
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| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:04 pm
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| Dragus wrote: | | I definitely agree with you. Living in a backwards conservative area for most of my life, I've become so sick of my colleagues' behavior towards other races and females that I've actually donated some money to the feminist movement once or twice. |
I'd support the feminist movement as well, if it was still an equal rights for both sexes movement. Some have turned it into a "women first" movement, and it isn't hard to see why the term "feminazi" came in to being.
But hey, I truly believe in equal rights/treatment for both sexes, as well. That's why I don't believe it's wrong for a man to hit a woman if that woman hit him first, and why I believe women shouldn't automatically be seen as the "victims" in cases of underage sex between a female and a slightly older male. |
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CFH
Ligador
Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 5136
HP: 100 MP: 6 Lives: 2
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| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:26 pm
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| $AGE wrote: | | Dragus wrote: | | I definitely agree with you. Living in a backwards conservative area for most of my life, I've become so sick of my colleagues' behavior towards other races and females that I've actually donated some money to the feminist movement once or twice. |
I'd support the feminist movement as well, if it was still an equal rights for both sexes movement. Some have turned it into a "women first" movement, and it isn't hard to see why the term "feminazi" came in to being.
But hey, I truly believe in equal rights/treatment for both sexes, as well. That's why I don't believe it's wrong for a man to hit a woman if that woman hit him first, and why I believe women shouldn't automatically be seen as the "victims" in cases of underage sex between a female and a slightly older male. |
I don't believe in equal rights to both genders.
I believe genders don't matter at all when rights are being discussed/set.
And I also suddenly thought something about this whole thing. Disliking/hate against sexists is a thing that needs to be carried out less blatantly than that. Because sexism is usually existant due to human nature, plus one of the unavoidable prehistory hangovers.
Good example: The Smurfette Principle is a way of sexism, but it exists because Most Writers Are Male, and not due to an explicit, loud kind of sexism. |
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Cid
Lord Krump
Joined: 21 Apr 2007
Posts: 7880
HP: 60 MP: 2 Lives: 0
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| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:33 pm
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| CFH wrote: | I don't believe in equal rights to both genders.
I believe genders don't matter at all when rights are being discussed/set. |
I'm confused by what you mean. You don't believe in equal rights for both genders, but why would you also say that you don't believe genders matter at all? If you don't believe in equal rights for genders, that means that gender is a determing factor in your opinion about rights.
| Quote: | | And I also suddenly thought something about this whole thing. Disliking/hate against sexists is a thing that needs to be carried out less blatantly than that. Because sexism is usually existant due to human nature, plus one of the unavoidable prehistory hangovers. |
Saying that we shouldn't be so harsh towards sexism is like saying we shouldn't be so harsh towards racism, as you can just as easily argue that racism exists because of human nature. However, not trying to push away those problems will be undoing the work that so many civil rights activists have tried to establish. We wouldn't be evolving in the right direction.
Maybe some things naturally come to one sex more than another. But that shouldn't mean that their rights and opportunities should be limited because of that. It isn't even real sexism; sexism isn't what naturally happens. It is the belief that one sex is inferior and should be treated differently than another sex. Plus, we're finally starting to evolve beyond "gender/sexual identity," as I stated in my previous post (Which should have happened a while ago.)
Eventually, technology will evolve to the point where we have synthetic bodies devoid of limiting factors such as "gender" or "sex drives." I cannot wait for that day to come. |
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CFH
Ligador
Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 5136
HP: 100 MP: 6 Lives: 2
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| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:47 pm
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| $AGE wrote: | | CFH wrote: | I don't believe in equal rights to both genders.
I believe genders don't matter at all when rights are being discussed/set. |
I'm confused by what you mean. You don't believe in equal rights for both genders, but why would you also say that you don't believe genders matter at all? If you don't believe in equal rights for genders, that means that gender is a determing factor in your opinion about rights. |
Clearer explaination: Why even care about gender when thinking about rights? That sort of thought can make it ten times easier to not be sexist, at least I think so. Except when the idea of a rather gender-biased right comes up, not thinking about gender leads to giving people rights that don't vary with gender.
| $AGE wrote: | | Quote: | | And I also suddenly thought something about this whole thing. Disliking/hate against sexists is a thing that needs to be carried out less blatantly than that. Because sexism is usually existant due to human nature, plus one of the unavoidable prehistory hangovers. |
Saying that we shouldn't be so harsh towards sexism is like saying we shouldn't be so harsh towards racism, as you can just as easily argue that racism exists because of human nature. However, not trying to push away those problems will be undoing the work that so many civil rights activists have tried to establish. We wouldn't be evolving in the right direction.
Maybe some things naturally come to one sex more than another. But that shouldn't mean that their rights and opportunities should be limited because of that. It isn't even real sexism; sexism isn't what naturally happens. It is the belief that one sex is inferior and should be treated differently than another sex. Plus, we're finally starting to evolve beyond "gender/sexual identity," as I stated in my previous post (Which should have happened a while ago.)
Eventually, technology will evolve to the point where we have synthetic bodies devoid of limiting factors such as "gender" or "sex drives." I cannot wait for that day to come. |
My idea meant something more like "Sexism needs to be viewed not as an evil way of opinion, but a flaw of human nature".
Racism is also usually a flaw of human nature rather than evil way of opinion, but, let's face it, racism nowadays is a hundred times if not more than that more extreme and more likely to pop up. Hence, explicit sexism is something most people don't depict anymore, while explicit racism is only shot down at places with a specific and strict law on the subject. So it needs to be treated harshly as of now.
Plus, "evolving in the right direction" is a subjective view. Some people think it's better to work on lessening the impact of bigger problems, while others think it's important to completely obliterate a problem before focusing on other. The activists and such already did their homework critically lessening the impact of sexism; it's a matter of opinion to keep at it or not.
And furthermore, evolving beyond a sort of identity is terribly difficult when a fair few of people still can take advantage of a certain status. A lead reason for sexism to happen, in both sides, is using gender as an excuse to egoboost.
Lastly, it's also going to be a pain on the ass to evolve to the point in which genders don't exist anymore. Remember, it's at least halfway nigh-impossible to make people at large change what they think about sex. Why do you think there's still a large number of well-educated people that still get AIDS? Because it doesn't matter how much they are told to use condoms, if they perceive condoms as a thing that will detract from the, let's say, experience, they will refuse to use it. |
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