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See? Popple
Joined: 30 Apr 2007 Posts: 14001
HP: 99 MP: 8 Lives: 10
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Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:44 pm
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Do you believe in the soul?
It is the question that has plagued man more than any other, even more than the concept of god.
We are the only species to have art.
The only species to have true self conscious.
And surely the only species to contemplate this matter.
It really is a complex debate because neither side has very much proof outside semantics.
However I do hold one argument, and that is evolution.
Never in evolution, except for in the case of man, has a single species dominated all others.
There are always variations, always numerous takes on the same basic concept.
Yes, there are different races of man, but that is like saying a poodle is a different species from a dachshund.
I argue that because man is the only species of his kind to exsist on the planet earth, there is some sort of magnificent interference that has caused this radical departure from the path Darwin and friends laid out.
What are your opinions and arguments.
And no just saying yes or no or "Religion is awesome" shit either. |
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RaveRaze Mana7 Dead
Joined: 30 Jun 2008 Posts: 6987
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Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:12 am
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If it has no physical form its not real, and yes things like the wind and tide have a physical form becuase you can feel it. Everything else is just another stupid concept or idea. |
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Tails Doll
Joined: 04 Jun 2007 Posts: 30513
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Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:45 am
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There is no doubt that we as humans are very special, and that that we basically rule the world now, despite all odds as a species. Really, I don't know. |
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See? Popple
Joined: 30 Apr 2007 Posts: 14001
HP: 99 MP: 8 Lives: 10
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Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 2:13 am
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RaveRaze wrote: | If it has no physical form its not real, and yes things like the wind and tide have a physical form becuase you can feel it. Everything else is just another stupid concept or idea. |
Science has no place is the theological realm sir.
Semantics, that is all it is here.
If you wish to make an argument, than at least put some validity in it.
You say things like the wind have physical form, yet now you open a whole new realm of discussion.
What of matter, quarks? You do not feel these yet we know them to be true.
What of anti-matter? Sadly these concepts are out of my grasp.
To find the soul, or indeed to disprove it, one must search deeper than science.
Science, like all religions, blinds the follower to all other views, to all other ideas.
To see the soul you must open your mind to all possibilities.
To debate the soul you must argue with logic, not with data.
This is the reason most atheist disgust me.
They act like they are far superior to all other human beings, as if they are some kind of *crag* arian race, just because they can read a *crag* book.
Tell me, was this computer you are sitting a possibility centuries ago?
Just because something is yet to be discovered does not mean it doesn't exsist.
It is this close minded perspective that plagues the planet and halts us from moving forward.
People see themselves as god simply because they have more knowledge than they did in the past.
They speak of evolution as if it was written on some *crag* ancient scroll pointing towards the path of prosperity, yet they refuse to acknowledge it's active affects on normal society.
They feel empowered by an obvious pattern, as if it was a *crag* phenomenon that the human races progresses.
*crag* idiots. |
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vdogam3r kEvin
Joined: 30 Nov 2007 Posts: 3420
HP: 40 MP: 7 Lives: 0
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Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:58 am
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Popple wrote: | RaveRaze wrote: | If it has no physical form its not real, and yes things like the wind and tide have a physical form becuase you can feel it. Everything else is just another stupid concept or idea. |
Science has no place is the theological realm sir.
Semantics, that is all it is here.
If you wish to make an argument, than at least put some validity in it.
You say things like the wind have physical form, yet now you open a whole new realm of discussion.
What of matter, quarks? You do not feel these yet we know them to be true.
What of anti-matter? Sadly these concepts are out of my grasp.
To find the soul, or indeed to disprove it, one must search deeper than science.
Science, like all religions, blinds the follower to all other views, to all other ideas.
To see the soul you must open your mind to all possibilities.
To debate the soul you must argue with logic, not with data.
This is the reason most atheist disgust me.
They act like they are far superior to all other human beings, as if they are some kind of *crag* arian race, just because they can read a *crag* book.
Tell me, was this computer you are sitting a possibility centuries ago?
Just because something is yet to be discovered does not mean it doesn't exsist.
It is this close minded perspective that plagues the planet and halts us from moving forward.
People see themselves as god simply because they have more knowledge than they did in the past.
They speak of evolution as if it was written on some *crag* ancient scroll pointing towards the path of prosperity, yet they refuse to acknowledge it's active affects on normal society.
They feel empowered by an obvious pattern, as if it was a *crag* phenomenon that the human races progresses.
*crag* idiots. | Oh my god.
That was beautiful. |
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AMNESIAC amnesiac
Joined: 02 Apr 2009 Posts: 67
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Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:35 am
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I don't deny the possibility of a soul, but I'm pretty sure that everything you listed that makes humans special could also be explained by intelligence. Humans are the most intelligent out of all the species. The only species that may come close is probably dolphins, but they are kind of held back by the fact that they are confined to the water and don't have hands. It's human's intelligence which allows for the existence of the kind of concepts like a soul or a god, but really, there is never going to be a way to prove one way or another if there is a supernatural presence, so belief in one is pretty futile. |
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Bartz Klauser BAMFing ARCHER Werewolf
Joined: 27 Sep 2007 Posts: 7637
HP: 100 MP: 5 Lives: 4
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Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:55 pm
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The soul is something abstract, really. I say it does exist, and maybe other animals have it too. Who knows, really. I don't think there's any way of knowing whether or not a soul exists, due to its abstract nature. There's no way to tell if animals have a soul or not, since we can't communicate with them on an equal level.
Some say the soul is nothing more than pulses of electricity through the nervous system. Maybe it is, maybe it's more. Hell, it is more, if not, we'd be nothing more than robots. Robots are really nothing more than pulses of electricity through a bunch of wiring, and they can't express emotion to the same level as us. This'll probably disprove the above argument about whether a soul is tangible or not, which I've seen quite a bit in discussions like this.
I suppose it falls into the same category as God, reincarnation, and a variety of other concepts that no one will ever know exists. Personally, though, I know that such a thing called a soul exists. |
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Master of Puppets... The Chaos Heart
Joined: 17 Jul 2007 Posts: 4568
HP: 100 MP: 6 Lives: 22
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Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:55 pm
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Popple wrote: | RaveRaze wrote: | If it has no physical form its not real, and yes things like the wind and tide have a physical form becuase you can feel it. Everything else is just another stupid concept or idea. |
Science has no place is the theological realm sir.
Semantics, that is all it is here.
If you wish to make an argument, than at least put some validity in it.
You say things like the wind have physical form, yet now you open a whole new realm of discussion.
What of matter, quarks? You do not feel these yet we know them to be true.
What of anti-matter? Sadly these concepts are out of my grasp.
To find the soul, or indeed to disprove it, one must search deeper than science.
Science, like all religions, blinds the follower to all other views, to all other ideas.
To see the soul you must open your mind to all possibilities.
To debate the soul you must argue with logic, not with data.
This is the reason most atheist disgust me.
They act like they are far superior to all other human beings, as if they are some kind of *crag* arian race, just because they can read a *crag* book.
Tell me, was this computer you are sitting a possibility centuries ago?
Just because something is yet to be discovered does not mean it doesn't exsist.
It is this close minded perspective that plagues the planet and halts us from moving forward.
People see themselves as god simply because they have more knowledge than they did in the past.
They speak of evolution as if it was written on some *crag* ancient scroll pointing towards the path of prosperity, yet they refuse to acknowledge it's active affects on normal society.
They feel empowered by an obvious pattern, as if it was a *crag* phenomenon that the human races progresses.
*crag* idiots. |
That's sounds like something I would say...
That being the case, I suppose I will turn my attention towards the evolution section of this topic.
In my personal opinion, evolution is false. And it's simple reasoning as to why.
1) Where has any evidence of evolution occurred? We have one animal, and another. When evolution is supposedly supposed to occur, it's not like a dog just randomly gives birth to a cat, and then all dogs begin to be cats. It would be a gradual change. Some dogs begin gaining slight feline features, until, low and behold, a cat is born.
Well, where are these in between stages? I see drawings and paintings of these stages, but I don't see any record or evidence of these changes. Conclusion: Evolution did not occur.
Now, this is NOT to say that ADAPTION does not occur. For instance, take a poodle, and a german shepherd. Both different dogs, yes. Both live in different climates, yes. But they are still both DOGS. They are still the same species.
If evolution was real, and we TRULY did evolve from monkeys, then how come there are still monkeys? Evolution supposedly occurs because animals do it to survive. So...what you are saying is monkey turned into humans to survive, but some stayed as monkeys, which would kill them, as well as contradicts the reason for turning into humans, and continued to exist? That makes absolutely NO sense. It's illogical.
Over half the scientists in the world agree that evolution is not real. You can continue to believe it all you want, but I'll leave you with this.
The THEORY of evolution. Not the LAW of evolution. |
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See? Popple
Joined: 30 Apr 2007 Posts: 14001
HP: 99 MP: 8 Lives: 10
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Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 4:30 pm
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There are several specimens that depict the inbetween process of animals and even humans, the problem is that there aren't a lot of them.
My biggest issue with evolution is these middle of the road stages seem too few and far between to have been created through random chance. |
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Master of Puppets... The Chaos Heart
Joined: 17 Jul 2007 Posts: 4568
HP: 100 MP: 6 Lives: 22
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Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 4:33 pm
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Popple wrote: | There are several specimens that depict the inbetween process of animals and even humans, the problem is that there aren't a lot of them.
My biggest issue with evolution is these middle of the road stages seem too few and far between to have been created through random chance. |
That's another good point. |
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See? Popple
Joined: 30 Apr 2007 Posts: 14001
HP: 99 MP: 8 Lives: 10
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Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 4:57 pm
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The main reason I hate hardcore atheists is because they just try to prove they are better than everyone, and our often wrong.
For example, I once read the statement, "Noah's Ark could never of happened because it is impossible for the world to flood over."
Yet the numerous Ice Ages earth has gone through are perfectly acceptable.
I ask you, what the *crag*?
But we are getting off topic, souls.
What of them? |
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RaveRaze Mana7 Dead
Joined: 30 Jun 2008 Posts: 6987
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Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:48 pm
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KK first off im not one of those atheists that forces everyone to believe that theyre's no god, hell im not even an atheist. And with your entire point that atheists feel superior to everyone because they have facts and data is somewhat true depending on which person your talking too. Hell some religous people act superior to everyone because they have a god and shit like that. EG Hitler and the Jews (Im not gonna go into details about this cause im too lazy) And so id post more but ya I dont feel like it.
Post scriptum
You cant logically argue the existance of the soul, actually in one of the sub divisions of logic it could be argued i just dont know much about the sub divisions of logic.
Also TCH there is evidence of evolution, something about birds on separate islands and what not. |
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Hellza Ballza Goron Mask Dead
Joined: 14 Jul 2007 Posts: 29930
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Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:06 pm
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Soul in my opinion is just your inner ego, your confidence, your optimism. It's just another word to describe inspiration, I wouldn't go as far as to say it's a living substance inside of you like most christfags do but it is something. |
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Bartz Klauser BAMFing ARCHER Werewolf
Joined: 27 Sep 2007 Posts: 7637
HP: 100 MP: 5 Lives: 4
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Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:23 pm
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The Chaos Heart wrote: | Popple wrote: | RaveRaze wrote: | If it has no physical form its not real, and yes things like the wind and tide have a physical form becuase you can feel it. Everything else is just another stupid concept or idea. |
Science has no place is the theological realm sir.
Semantics, that is all it is here.
If you wish to make an argument, than at least put some validity in it.
You say things like the wind have physical form, yet now you open a whole new realm of discussion.
What of matter, quarks? You do not feel these yet we know them to be true.
What of anti-matter? Sadly these concepts are out of my grasp.
To find the soul, or indeed to disprove it, one must search deeper than science.
Science, like all religions, blinds the follower to all other views, to all other ideas.
To see the soul you must open your mind to all possibilities.
To debate the soul you must argue with logic, not with data.
This is the reason most atheist disgust me.
They act like they are far superior to all other human beings, as if they are some kind of *crag* arian race, just because they can read a *crag* book.
Tell me, was this computer you are sitting a possibility centuries ago?
Just because something is yet to be discovered does not mean it doesn't exsist.
It is this close minded perspective that plagues the planet and halts us from moving forward.
People see themselves as god simply because they have more knowledge than they did in the past.
They speak of evolution as if it was written on some *crag* ancient scroll pointing towards the path of prosperity, yet they refuse to acknowledge it's active affects on normal society.
They feel empowered by an obvious pattern, as if it was a *crag* phenomenon that the human races progresses.
*crag* idiots. |
That's sounds like something I would say...
That being the case, I suppose I will turn my attention towards the evolution section of this topic.
In my personal opinion, evolution is false. And it's simple reasoning as to why.
1) Where has any evidence of evolution occurred? We have one animal, and another. When evolution is supposedly supposed to occur, it's not like a dog just randomly gives birth to a cat, and then all dogs begin to be cats. It would be a gradual change. Some dogs begin gaining slight feline features, until, low and behold, a cat is born.
Well, where are these in between stages? I see drawings and paintings of these stages, but I don't see any record or evidence of these changes. Conclusion: Evolution did not occur.
Now, this is NOT to say that ADAPTION does not occur. For instance, take a poodle, and a german shepherd. Both different dogs, yes. Both live in different climates, yes. But they are still both DOGS. They are still the same species.
If evolution was real, and we TRULY did evolve from monkeys, then how come there are still monkeys? Evolution supposedly occurs because animals do it to survive. So...what you are saying is monkey turned into humans to survive, but some stayed as monkeys, which would kill them, as well as contradicts the reason for turning into humans, and continued to exist? That makes absolutely NO sense. It's illogical.
Over half the scientists in the world agree that evolution is not real. You can continue to believe it all you want, but I'll leave you with this.
The THEORY of evolution. Not the LAW of evolution. | Adaptations are evolution, yo. And you do realize for a theory to be called, and finalized as a theory, it has to be widely tested, right? |
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See? Popple
Joined: 30 Apr 2007 Posts: 14001
HP: 99 MP: 8 Lives: 10
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Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:56 pm
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RaveRaze wrote: | KK first off im not one of those atheists that forces everyone to believe that theyre's no god, hell im not even an atheist. And with your entire point that atheists feel superior to everyone because they have facts and data is somewhat true depending on which person your talking too. Hell some religous people act superior to everyone because they have a god and shit like that. EG Hitler and the Jews (Im not gonna go into details about this cause im too lazy) And so id post more but ya I dont feel like it.
Post scriptum
You cant logically argue the existance of the soul, actually in one of the sub divisions of logic it could be argued i just dont know much about the sub divisions of logic.
Also TCH there is evidence of evolution, something about birds on separate islands and what not. |
Darwin is the father of evolution, but his theories are all but debunked at this point.
Although the basic idea is the same, many of Darwin's principles have been proven false.
Also, I hate all religious institution.
Belief should be one's own personal decision and our current world state does not allow that in many cases. |
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