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Hey [you]! If you haven't noticed, this is now the old digibutter forums. Go over to the new site!
digibutter.nerr
It's Hi-Technicaaal!
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Fat Tuper
lovegod703
Joined: 06 May 2008
Posts: 5515
HP: 10 MP: 6 Lives: 0
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 Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:04 am
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Well, (it sounds crazy without all the backup proof, but...) more recently, as shown on the History Channel, more and more scientists are becoming to believe that aliens helped mankind evolve, and since I saw both documentaries, I believe it, too. But they think that the reason that humans have superior intelligence, superior thinking ability, and everything else superior, is because they think humans bred with aliens, and eventually, it happened enough so that all of human kind had changed. It sounds just *crag* insane without all the proof to back it up, but you should look for the documentaries on YouTube.
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AMNESIAC
amnesiac
Joined: 02 Apr 2009
Posts: 67
HP: 100 MP: 10 Lives: 0
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 10:37 am
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| Fat Tuper wrote: | Well, (it sounds crazy without all the backup proof, but...) more recently, as shown on the History Channel, more and more scientists are becoming to believe that aliens helped mankind evolve, and since I saw both documentaries, I believe it, too. But they think that the reason that humans have superior intelligence, superior thinking ability, and everything else superior, is because they think humans bred with aliens, and eventually, it happened enough so that all of human kind had changed. It sounds just *crag* insane without all the proof to back it up, but you should look for the documentaries on YouTube.
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I'm not going to throw my faith into the hypothesis, but it is much more probable than a magical omnipotent being just deciding, "HEY LET'S MAKE STUFF!" And any religious person who claims that this idea is ridiculous and impossible should seriously read their respective holy book another time through.
Now Popple, I'm not going to respond to your individual posts because there are too many of them, but...
You have no evidence to suggest the existence of a human soul. You only have several wholly human attributes that, for some reason, you find key proponents in having a "soul." What do any of these concepts have to do with anything supernatural? You ask where compassion and sacrifice can from, and my answer is empathy. The ability to identify with another person's situation. Yes, empathy is uniquely human, and it originates from human's intelligence. Intelligence is the only thing that separates humans from the other members of the animal kingdom. You can argue that human behavior comes from a soul, I can argue that it comes from intelligence, but you have no more evidence than I. There is no way to prove the existence of a soul, and your vague conjectures are no better, possibly worse, than my own.
| Quote: | | but certainly they did not just make rash generalizations out of thin air. |
So, unintelligent people thousands of years ago cannot make rash generalizations, yet you, who supposedly possesses higher intellect, can? Death is the timeless mystery. It is comforting to think that when we die, things will be okay. Intelligence caused the hope for life everlasting, which caused the idea of a soul.
Also, is it impossible for you to formulate a paragraph? You double space every sentence, and it is mildly irritating. |
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See?
Popple
Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 14001
HP: 99 MP: 8 Lives: 10
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 1:28 pm
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| amnesiac wrote: | | Fat Tuper wrote: | Well, (it sounds crazy without all the backup proof, but...) more recently, as shown on the History Channel, more and more scientists are becoming to believe that aliens helped mankind evolve, and since I saw both documentaries, I believe it, too. But they think that the reason that humans have superior intelligence, superior thinking ability, and everything else superior, is because they think humans bred with aliens, and eventually, it happened enough so that all of human kind had changed. It sounds just *crag* insane without all the proof to back it up, but you should look for the documentaries on YouTube.
———————————> |
I'm not going to throw my faith into the hypothesis, but it is much more probable than a magical omnipotent being just deciding, "HEY LET'S MAKE STUFF!" And any religious person who claims that this idea is ridiculous and impossible should seriously read their respective holy book another time through.
Now Popple, I'm not going to respond to your individual posts because there are too many of them, but...
You have no evidence to suggest the existence of a human soul. You only have several wholly human attributes that, for some reason, you find key proponents in having a "soul." What do any of these concepts have to do with anything supernatural? You ask where compassion and sacrifice can from, and my answer is empathy. The ability to identify with another person's situation. Yes, empathy is uniquely human, and it originates from human's intelligence. Intelligence is the only thing that separates humans from the other members of the animal kingdom. You can argue that human behavior comes from a soul, I can argue that it comes from intelligence, but you have no more evidence than I. There is no way to prove the existence of a soul, and your vague conjectures are no better, possibly worse, than my own.
| Quote: | | but certainly they did not just make rash generalizations out of thin air. |
So, unintelligent people thousands of years ago cannot make rash generalizations, yet you, who supposedly possesses higher intellect, can? Death is the timeless mystery. It is comforting to think that when we die, things will be okay. Intelligence caused the hope for life everlasting, which caused the idea of a soul.
Also, is it impossible for you to formulate a paragraph? You double space every sentence, and it is mildly irritating. |
I love you, you just throw so much ammo at me it's almost ludicrous.
First off on this idea of an alien guardian.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You are *crag* laughable. Ignorant even.
Don't you *crag* get it? It's the same *crag* thing. God and an Alien creator are the same theory, but just because one has the word "spirit" and the other "science" these *crag* scientist automatically assume that the latter is more plausible.
These two theories aren't only similar, they are the same. We've come *crag* full circle, they are basically trying to justify intelligent design.
And as for you problem with my theories.
The fact is that the idea of a creator and the idea of soul is outside the jurisdiction of data and calculations.
What you want is something solid that you can inspect and evaluate for your own. The idea of a creator is so far out of the reach of science it's not even funny.
Science is the study of how the universe works, not what created it.
Just because you understand how something was made doesn't mean that it was NOT created by some eternal being.
That is ridiculous, inconceivable.
How far off the charts does your ability of reasoning have to be to jump to that conclusion?
If death is the comfort that you say it is, then why would an intelligent being want eternal life?
Isn't that contradictory?
Why would you develop an idea that puts you off in a worse position than before. That isn't evolution, that isn't how the instinctual thought process works.
Come back when you have better arguments. |
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OH GOD
Manpersonguything
Werewolf
Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Posts: 7249
HP: 100 MP: 8 Lives: 0
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 5:06 pm
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Sorry if this sounds pestimistic.
Humans are just animals along with dogs and fish, that evolved and became very intelligant. We have no "Soul" Just parts to keep us alive.
I am a firm beliver of this stuff, like love isn't when you know when you want to be with someone forever, but senses to allow us to reproduce so our species doesn't die out. |
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and I control the decks
carfilledwithfish
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 3988
HP: 88 MP: 7 Lives: 0
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 5:36 pm
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| Manpersonguything wrote: | Sorry if this sounds pestimistic.
Humans are just animals along with dogs and fish, that evolved and became very intelligant. We have no "Soul" Just parts to keep us alive.
I am a firm beliver of this stuff, like love isn't when you know when you want to be with someone forever, but senses to allow us to reproduce so our species doesn't die out. |
Love is pretty much just a chemical reaction in our brains that says "I wanna make babies with this person." But, y'know, humans usually mate for life, so it's pretty much the same as "I want to be with this person forever." So rather than say love doesn't exist, why not just call that reaction, love?
Similarly, if you define a "soul" as consciousness and being self-aware, can you honestly say that they don't exist? |
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The Axolotl Sympathist
Geno
Werewolf
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 8754
HP: 100 MP: 4 Lives: 1
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 5:56 pm
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| Dr. Eurhok wrote: | | Manpersonguything wrote: | Sorry if this sounds pestimistic.
Humans are just animals along with dogs and fish, that evolved and became very intelligant. We have no "Soul" Just parts to keep us alive.
I am a firm beliver of this stuff, like love isn't when you know when you want to be with someone forever, but senses to allow us to reproduce so our species doesn't die out. |
Love is pretty much just a chemical reaction in our brains that says "I wanna make babies with this person." But, y'know, humans usually mate for life, so it's pretty much the same as "I want to be with this person forever." So rather than say love doesn't exist, why not just call that reaction, love?
Similarly, if you define a "soul" as consciousness and being self-aware, can you honestly say that they don't exist? |
But then there's another twist. What about the people that want to be together, but have no intention of reproducing? What if a couple wants to be together solely because they like each other a lot?
Then what is that? |
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RaveRaze
Mana7
Dead
Joined: 30 Jun 2008
Posts: 6987
HP: 0 MP: 2 Lives: 0
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:32 pm
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| Geno wrote: | | Dr. Eurhok wrote: | | Manpersonguything wrote: | Sorry if this sounds pestimistic.
Humans are just animals along with dogs and fish, that evolved and became very intelligant. We have no "Soul" Just parts to keep us alive.
I am a firm beliver of this stuff, like love isn't when you know when you want to be with someone forever, but senses to allow us to reproduce so our species doesn't die out. |
Love is pretty much just a chemical reaction in our brains that says "I wanna make babies with this person." But, y'know, humans usually mate for life, so it's pretty much the same as "I want to be with this person forever." So rather than say love doesn't exist, why not just call that reaction, love?
Similarly, if you define a "soul" as consciousness and being self-aware, can you honestly say that they don't exist? |
But then there's another twist. What about the people that want to be together, but have no intention of reproducing? What if a couple wants to be together solely because they like each other a lot?
Then what is that? |
The other person makes those chemicals in your head that make you happy, you want that happiness more, I would go into more detail but i would have to specify someone |
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AMNESIAC
amnesiac
Joined: 02 Apr 2009
Posts: 67
HP: 100 MP: 10 Lives: 0
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:58 pm
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| Popple wrote: | | amnesiac wrote: | | Fat Tuper wrote: | Well, (it sounds crazy without all the backup proof, but...) more recently, as shown on the History Channel, more and more scientists are becoming to believe that aliens helped mankind evolve, and since I saw both documentaries, I believe it, too. But they think that the reason that humans have superior intelligence, superior thinking ability, and everything else superior, is because they think humans bred with aliens, and eventually, it happened enough so that all of human kind had changed. It sounds just *crag* insane without all the proof to back it up, but you should look for the documentaries on YouTube.
———————————> |
I'm not going to throw my faith into the hypothesis, but it is much more probable than a magical omnipotent being just deciding, "HEY LET'S MAKE STUFF!" And any religious person who claims that this idea is ridiculous and impossible should seriously read their respective holy book another time through.
Now Popple, I'm not going to respond to your individual posts because there are too many of them, but...
You have no evidence to suggest the existence of a human soul. You only have several wholly human attributes that, for some reason, you find key proponents in having a "soul." What do any of these concepts have to do with anything supernatural? You ask where compassion and sacrifice can from, and my answer is empathy. The ability to identify with another person's situation. Yes, empathy is uniquely human, and it originates from human's intelligence. Intelligence is the only thing that separates humans from the other members of the animal kingdom. You can argue that human behavior comes from a soul, I can argue that it comes from intelligence, but you have no more evidence than I. There is no way to prove the existence of a soul, and your vague conjectures are no better, possibly worse, than my own.
| Quote: | | but certainly they did not just make rash generalizations out of thin air. |
So, unintelligent people thousands of years ago cannot make rash generalizations, yet you, who supposedly possesses higher intellect, can? Death is the timeless mystery. It is comforting to think that when we die, things will be okay. Intelligence caused the hope for life everlasting, which caused the idea of a soul.
Also, is it impossible for you to formulate a paragraph? You double space every sentence, and it is mildly irritating. |
I love you, you just throw so much ammo at me it's almost ludicrous.
First off on this idea of an alien guardian.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You are *crag* laughable. Ignorant even.
Let's not turn this into a flame war, now!!
Don't you *crag* get it? It's the same *crag* thing. God and an Alien creator are the same theory, but just because one has the word "spirit" and the other "science" these *crag* scientist automatically assume that the latter is more plausible.
These two theories aren't only similar, they are the same. We've come *crag* full circle, they are basically trying to justify intelligent design.
They aren't the same theory at all. If aliens were to help human's evolve, they'd still have to have their own evolution. The alien theory still has the ideas of the big bang and evolution in it, except it also adds aliens into the mix... Which is actually kind of ridiculous, but, for me at least, makes more sense than an omnipotent and omnipresent being with no origin.
And as for you problem with my theories.
The fact is that the idea of a creator and the idea of soul is outside the jurisdiction of data and calculations.
What you want is something solid that you can inspect and evaluate for your own. The idea of a creator is so far out of the reach of science it's not even funny.
Science is the study of how the universe works, not what created it.
Just because you understand how something was made doesn't mean that it was NOT created by some eternal being.
That is ridiculous, inconceivable.
How far off the charts does your ability of reasoning have to be to jump to that conclusion?
Um... What? I do not doubt the possibility of the supernatural, but there is no way to prove or disprove a god or human souls. Belief in a god is kind of futile when there is no evidence.
If death is the comfort that you say it is, then why would an intelligent being want eternal life?
Isn't that contradictory?
Why would you develop an idea that puts you off in a worse position than before. That isn't evolution, that isn't how the instinctual thought process works.
Death is not comforting. I never said that. Death is the unknown, and therefore it is terrifying. To alleviate fear, man has invented the idea of life everlasting. However, everlasting life also serves as a means of control. Do as we say, and you'll have eternal bliss; disobey and burn in hell forever.
Come back when you have better arguments.
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KK. |
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OH GOD
Manpersonguything
Werewolf
Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Posts: 7249
HP: 100 MP: 8 Lives: 0
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 11:27 pm
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| Geno wrote: | | Dr. Eurhok wrote: | | Manpersonguything wrote: | Sorry if this sounds pestimistic.
Humans are just animals along with dogs and fish, that evolved and became very intelligant. We have no "Soul" Just parts to keep us alive.
I am a firm beliver of this stuff, like love isn't when you know when you want to be with someone forever, but senses to allow us to reproduce so our species doesn't die out. |
Love is pretty much just a chemical reaction in our brains that says "I wanna make babies with this person." But, y'know, humans usually mate for life, so it's pretty much the same as "I want to be with this person forever." So rather than say love doesn't exist, why not just call that reaction, love?
Similarly, if you define a "soul" as consciousness and being self-aware, can you honestly say that they don't exist? |
But then there's another twist. What about the people that want to be together, but have no intention of reproducing? What if a couple wants to be together solely because they like each other a lot?
Then what is that? |
I was just saying what the reaction love truely is, a chemical reaction designed via evolution so we can allow the continuation of the speices. Not saying love has no point other than sex and reproducing. |
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See?
Popple
Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 14001
HP: 99 MP: 8 Lives: 10
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 12:15 am
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| amnesiac wrote: | | Popple wrote: | | amnesiac wrote: | | Fat Tuper wrote: | Well, (it sounds crazy without all the backup proof, but...) more recently, as shown on the History Channel, more and more scientists are becoming to believe that aliens helped mankind evolve, and since I saw both documentaries, I believe it, too. But they think that the reason that humans have superior intelligence, superior thinking ability, and everything else superior, is because they think humans bred with aliens, and eventually, it happened enough so that all of human kind had changed. It sounds just *crag* insane without all the proof to back it up, but you should look for the documentaries on YouTube.
———————————> |
I'm not going to throw my faith into the hypothesis, but it is much more probable than a magical omnipotent being just deciding, "HEY LET'S MAKE STUFF!" And any religious person who claims that this idea is ridiculous and impossible should seriously read their respective holy book another time through.
Now Popple, I'm not going to respond to your individual posts because there are too many of them, but...
You have no evidence to suggest the existence of a human soul. You only have several wholly human attributes that, for some reason, you find key proponents in having a "soul." What do any of these concepts have to do with anything supernatural? You ask where compassion and sacrifice can from, and my answer is empathy. The ability to identify with another person's situation. Yes, empathy is uniquely human, and it originates from human's intelligence. Intelligence is the only thing that separates humans from the other members of the animal kingdom. You can argue that human behavior comes from a soul, I can argue that it comes from intelligence, but you have no more evidence than I. There is no way to prove the existence of a soul, and your vague conjectures are no better, possibly worse, than my own.
| Quote: | | but certainly they did not just make rash generalizations out of thin air. |
So, unintelligent people thousands of years ago cannot make rash generalizations, yet you, who supposedly possesses higher intellect, can? Death is the timeless mystery. It is comforting to think that when we die, things will be okay. Intelligence caused the hope for life everlasting, which caused the idea of a soul.
Also, is it impossible for you to formulate a paragraph? You double space every sentence, and it is mildly irritating. |
I love you, you just throw so much ammo at me it's almost ludicrous.
First off on this idea of an alien guardian.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You are *crag* laughable. Ignorant even.
Let's not turn this into a flame war, now!!
Don't you *crag* get it? It's the same *crag* thing. God and an Alien creator are the same theory, but just because one has the word "spirit" and the other "science" these *crag* scientist automatically assume that the latter is more plausible.
These two theories aren't only similar, they are the same. We've come *crag* full circle, they are basically trying to justify intelligent design.
They aren't the same theory at all. If aliens were to help human's evolve, they'd still have to have their own evolution. The alien theory still has the ideas of the big bang and evolution in it, except it also adds aliens into the mix... Which is actually kind of ridiculous, but, for me at least, makes more sense than an omnipotent and omnipresent being with no origin.
And as for you problem with my theories.
The fact is that the idea of a creator and the idea of soul is outside the jurisdiction of data and calculations.
What you want is something solid that you can inspect and evaluate for your own. The idea of a creator is so far out of the reach of science it's not even funny.
Science is the study of how the universe works, not what created it.
Just because you understand how something was made doesn't mean that it was NOT created by some eternal being.
That is ridiculous, inconceivable.
How far off the charts does your ability of reasoning have to be to jump to that conclusion?
Um... What? I do not doubt the possibility of the supernatural, but there is no way to prove or disprove a god or human souls. Belief in a god is kind of futile when there is no evidence.
If death is the comfort that you say it is, then why would an intelligent being want eternal life?
Isn't that contradictory?
Why would you develop an idea that puts you off in a worse position than before. That isn't evolution, that isn't how the instinctual thought process works.
Death is not comforting. I never said that. Death is the unknown, and therefore it is terrifying. To alleviate fear, man has invented the idea of life everlasting. However, everlasting life also serves as a means of control. Do as we say, and you'll have eternal bliss; disobey and burn in hell forever.
Come back when you have better arguments.
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KK. |
Your points about the alien theory are still flawed though.
Evolution, the Big Bang, who is to say that some all powerful being didn't cause them?
Everything has to work somehow, otherwise nothing would exist.
Just because you know how something works doesn't mean that it was created by random chance, it just means simply that.
And on your theory for the development of the human soul, that is still destroyed by my "You cannot create a thought unrelated to the information you have." It is impossible. Spirits and Souls could not have been developed out of thin air, no supernatural things are.
Aliens, people from another planet. Easily developed.
Even the famous monsters are.
Vampires are humans that drink blood. Werewolves are humans that change into wolves. Zombies are people brought back to life.
Souls are not seen commonly in nature as far as we are aware, and as such it is impossible for the human mind to have come up with the soul by itself, because there is no data to go off of.
Man would not fear death if he didn't have a reason to.
If you are raised to see death as the end of life and an eternal sleep, you will not fear it.
That is simply how we work.
If the ideas of souls did not exist, the idea of immortality would not exist either because there would be nothing to support it. |
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AMNESIAC
amnesiac
Joined: 02 Apr 2009
Posts: 67
HP: 100 MP: 10 Lives: 0
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:30 am
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Yes, and you still have no proof, and you never will have any proof. You act as your arguments aren't equally flawed. When you are debating the hypothetical, I'm pretty sure there is no way for there to be a solid argument.
| Quote: | | Evolution, the Big Bang, who is to say that some all powerful being didn't cause them? |
Who is to say that some all powerful being did cause them? There is no proof.
| Quote: | | And on your theory for the development of the human soul, that is still destroyed by my "You cannot create a thought unrelated to the information you have." It is impossible. Spirits and Souls could not have been developed out of thin air, no supernatural things are. |
You know that cool little thing they told us about when we were kids? You know, IMAGINATION? Anyone can imagine something, it isn't a unique idea to modern humans. There doesn't need to be a soul for someone to invent the concept of one.
| Quote: | Man would not fear death if he didn't have a reason to.
If you are raised to see death as the end of life and an eternal sleep, you will not fear it.
That is simply how we work.
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It is instinctual that all creatures fear death. A reason isn't needed.
| Quote: | | If the ideas of souls did not exist, the idea of immortality would not exist either because there would be nothing to support it. |
You are really being too kind to ancient man. People these days aren't that rational, why should they be? Evidence isn't needed if comfort is a factor. |
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hai
Spiny
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 27193
HP: 100 MP: 6 Lives: 1
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 12:39 pm
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I just realized something.
Both of you must realise without any actual proof of your sides of the story, you're just butting heads for the sake of it.
This is no longer driven by beliefs or confidence, this is just you two creating friction between eachother.
Both your logics are baseless in basic conception, but at the same time, have just enough base to continue.
You're caught in a loop. |
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Fat Tuper
lovegod703
Joined: 06 May 2008
Posts: 5515
HP: 10 MP: 6 Lives: 0
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 12:42 pm
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| Popple wrote: | First off on this idea of an alien guardian.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You are *crag* laughable. Ignorant even. How? It's saying that aliens came to Earth millions of years ago. You saying that anyone who think aliens could exist is ignorant, is in fact, ignorant of you. The universe is infinite. There are infinite stars, infinite planets, and infinite plants just like Earth. The chance Earth is the only planet in the universe with life on it is flat out 0%
Don't you *crag* get it? It's the same *crag* thing. God and an Alien creator are the same theory, but just because one has the word "spirit" and the other "science" these *crag* scientist automatically assume that the latter is more plausible. I'm not saying that God is an alien, I'm saying that aliens came to Earth and helped mankind evolve to what we are today. Who said that aliens made the universe?
These two theories aren't only similar, they are the same. We've come *crag* full circle, they are basically trying to justify intelligent design. Again, aliens helping mankind evolve ≠ aliens creating the universe |
The rest has nothing to do with my post.
———————————> |
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hai
Spiny
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 27193
HP: 100 MP: 6 Lives: 1
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 1:04 pm
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| Fat Tuper wrote: | | Popple wrote: | First off on this idea of an alien guardian.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You are *crag* laughable. Ignorant even. How? It's saying that aliens came to Earth millions of years ago. You saying that anyone who think aliens could exist is ignorant, is in fact, ignorant of you. The universe is infinite. There are infinite stars, infinite planets, and infinite plants just like Earth. The chance Earth is the only planet in the universe with life on it is flat out 0%
Don't you *crag* get it? It's the same *crag* thing. God and an Alien creator are the same theory, but just because one has the word "spirit" and the other "science" these *crag* scientist automatically assume that the latter is more plausible. I'm not saying that God is an alien, I'm saying that aliens came to Earth and helped mankind evolve to what we are today. Who said that aliens made the universe?
These two theories aren't only similar, they are the same. We've come *crag* full circle, they are basically trying to justify intelligent design. Again, aliens helping mankind evolve ≠ aliens creating the universe |
The rest has nothing to do with my post.
———————————>:awesome: |
He's not saying aliens are nonexistant, he's saying that it's laughable that most possible species would bother with or even know of us. |
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RaveRaze
Mana7
Dead
Joined: 30 Jun 2008
Posts: 6987
HP: 0 MP: 2 Lives: 0
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 1:54 pm
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| Spiny wrote: | I just realized something.
Both of you must realise without any actual proof of your sides of the story, you're just butting heads for the sake of it.
This is no longer driven by beliefs or confidence, this is just you two creating friction between eachother.
Both your logics are baseless in basic conception, but at the same time, have just enough base to continue.
You're caught in a loop. |
Theyre disucssing religion obviously they dont have a basis for anything |
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