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Hey [you]! If you haven't noticed, this is now the old digibutter forums. Go over to the new site!
digibutter.nerr
It's Hi-Technicaaal!
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Super Pivot General Koopatrol
Joined: 25 May 2007 Posts: 729
HP: 70 MP: 7 Lives: 0
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Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 12:43 pm
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There is no god, except in our minds. Honestly, why the heck would there be an omnipotent being who created all? And why would the world be created in six days when all evidence points to billions of years? And when god created Earth: Are we supposed to continuously praise god for doing whatever came to his mind naturally? Is there any evidence of an actual physical manifestation of an all-powerful being? If so, why does he just focus on Earth? And what about all those foreign people who have never heard of Jesus? Are they eternally damned just for that? The way I see it, religion is false, inaccurate, and sloppy. However... If you choose to have faith in god, that's okay. If it brings you joy, do it. There's nothing wrong with having religious faith, unless you're an ancient Aztec and has to tear open a human chest cavity every day just to make sure the sun rises. So go ahead. Believe. The only thing you're doing wrong is being stupid. Some who read this may be deeply offended, even going to the point where they try to find out what sins I am committing. If you are offended, then I apologize.
Last edited by General Koopatrol on Sat Sep 29, 2007 4:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ERECTIN' A DICK Miku Hatsune Vampire
Joined: 05 Jun 2007 Posts: 13497
HP: 5 MP: 4 Lives: 0
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Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 12:51 pm
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What>>>? |
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Kefka
Joined: 10 May 2007 Posts: 599
HP: 100 MP: 0 Lives: 0
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Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:33 pm
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I'm not touching this one. I tell you from experience that nothing but flames can come from debating religion on the internet, especially with such an openly hostile first post. |
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Horrible Attention Whore ooF Benned Vampire

Joined: 14 Jul 2007 Posts: 684
HP: 94 MP: 10 Lives: 0
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Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 4:49 pm
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god isn't real. Thats why this is a good thread. Kudos. |
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and I control the decks carfilledwithfish
Joined: 18 Jun 2007 Posts: 3988
HP: 88 MP: 7 Lives: 0
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Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:01 pm
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| Kefka wrote: | | I'm not touching this one. I tell you from experience that nothing but flames can come from debating religion on the internet, especially with such an openly hostile first post. |
I don't get why people post in topics like this saying stuff like "I'm not touching this one...". If they don't want to get involved, they could just not post. Another thing I don't get is why so many "rebel" teenagers think that Atheist means anti-Christian. I never see atheists complaining about Pagans, or Muslims, or Neo-druids, or whatever. It's always Christians. Even if you don't practice a religion, it doesn't mean you have to HATE IT. And really, Atheists who don't shut up about how God doesn't exist are just as annoying as Christians who don't shut up about how God does exist.
But I'm not gonna get involved. Oh, wait. |
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Kefka
Joined: 10 May 2007 Posts: 599
HP: 100 MP: 0 Lives: 0
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Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:39 pm
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| carfilledwithfish wrote: | | Kefka wrote: | | I'm not touching this one. I tell you from experience that nothing but flames can come from debating religion on the internet, especially with such an openly hostile first post. |
I don't get why people post in topics like this saying stuff like "I'm not touching this one...". If they don't want to get involved, they could just not post. | A warning. This thread will not end well, and if you are wise you will follow my lead and let it die a slow, painful death. |
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Burn them out rawrskey Benned Vampire

Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 14262
HP: 70 MP: 5 Lives: 5
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:16 pm
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heh.
I don't believe in organized religion, because all it's there for is comfort... that's the only pro, and the rest are cons. The money, the sacrifices, all of it is just useless.
Religion causes arguments, conflicts, wars, and all kinds of economic problems too. Religion is really just a pile of shit that needs to go away. |
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Elite Nerr Francis

Joined: 16 Apr 2007 Posts: 6974
HP: 50 MP: 3 Lives: 0
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:46 pm
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theology scientist?
| Super Pivot wrote: | | Honestly, why the heck would there be an omnipotent being who created all? |
How else would you explain our existence?
| Super Pivot wrote: | And why would the world be created in six days when all evidence points to billions of years? |
What does that have to do with the existence of god? People interpret the creation story in different ways... do you think the acient man would have understood the meaning of "billions of years" and evolution? The creation story does not mean there is no god, just that he is a good at explaining things to the un-scientific[/quote]
| Super Pivot wrote: | | And when god created Earth: Are we supposed to continuously praise god for doing whatever came to his mind naturally? |
There are lots of reasons to praise God. But mainly because He is everything.
| Super Pivot wrote: | Is there any evidence of an actual physical manifestation of an all-powerful being? |
The order of the universe, our existence, biblical miracles (jesus)
| Super Pivot wrote: | | If so, why does he just focus on Earth? |
It's his deal, I'm sure he does other things, but you wouldnt understand it because it exists outside of the realm of time, space, and anything our finite minds could possibly understand.
| Super Pivot wrote: | And what about all those foreign people who have never heard of Jesus? Are they eternally damned just for that? |
No, there is still a common understanding of right and wrong. Even if one does not hear of Jesus, you can still accept/deny the will of God. All humanity knows that there is something bigger than ourselves, if you reject that and live only for yourself, then you might have a problem. See your example of tearing out human hearts for your own pleasure.
| Super Pivot wrote: | The way I see it, religion is false, inaccurate, and sloppy.
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I agree. But you should take time to learn the differences between "religion" and "Christianity".
| Super Pivot wrote: | The only thing you're doing wrong is being stupid.
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Seriously, read over what you just wrote and ask yourself whos being "stupid".
| Super Pivot wrote: | Some who read this may be deeply offended, even going to the point where they try to find out what sins I am committing. If you are offended, then I apologize. |
LOL, thanks for the gross steriotype. Maybe youll actually take time to know what you are talking about before making assumptions about the oldest and largest set of beliefs in the world. |
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Kefka
Joined: 10 May 2007 Posts: 599
HP: 100 MP: 0 Lives: 0
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:49 pm
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I'm board. I'm going to take on both your arguements at once.
For the first thing, the topic creator is a moron. For one thing, there is no such thing as a "theology scientist", moron. For another thing, you are an idiot for starting such a blatently inflamatory topic on a board that likely has many religious people on it. Also, your entire first paragraph says nothing. It is a rant against Christianity, not religion. And talking about the big band and evolution doesn't even say anything against Christianity, it is just evidence against a certain interpritation of a certain part of Christian scripture.
And who are you to judge wheather a religious person is stupid or not? Polls show that about forty percent of scientists in America go to church regularly, does that make those scientists, who have years of higher education, less intelegent than you, a punk kid who mouths off to strangers on the internet.
Your post contributes nothing to this discussion ooF. Shut up and stay out of it.
Who are you to say that the only pro of religion is comfort rawrskey? Religion helps people to determine their place in the universe, to gain a sense of purpose, to form bonds with other people, and much good has been done because of it. The deep moral convictions of the religious were a major factor in the abolition movement that abolished slavery in America, and religious institutions, like the Salvation Army, contribute to making peoples lives better in many ways.
Francis. Your logic is flawed. From a sciencific standpoint, the only needed explination for our existance is avalable. We have a pretty good idea of how the universe formed from the Big Bang, and evolution tells us how humans came to be. No supernatural forces are needed to explain it all.
Furthermore, you claim that God is everything without any supporting evidence of this, or that God does, in fact, exist. There is no hard evidence that the events of the Bible are true, or that Jesus even existed. Some events of the Bible can be proved false. The story of Noah's flood, for example, is based on a large flood in the middle eastern region several thousand years ago.
What do I believe? I'm not telling. I just like arguing with people. |
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Elite Nerr Francis

Joined: 16 Apr 2007 Posts: 6974
HP: 50 MP: 3 Lives: 0
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 6:49 pm
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I shall counter your argument against my argument...
| Kefka wrote: | Francis. Your logic is flawed. From a sciencific standpoint, the only needed explination for our existance is avalable. We have a pretty good idea of how the universe formed from the Big Bang, and evolution tells us how humans came to be. No supernatural forces are needed to explain it all.
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There are many theories of how the universe was formed.. but there is still a point at which you have to ask "what created the original form of the universe?" what created the unversal laws and forces? Evolution can only take you so far. One explanation is that an eternal something created it that is everywhere and everything (i.e. God) and also exists outside of this universe.
That was my answer to "why would there be an omnipotent being who created all", because the alternative is that we came from nothing and nothing is eternally past and future. I think its far more difficult and has much less evidence to believe that the fact I am posting this message right now is just an evolutionary step that spawned from absolutely nothing for no purpose. If you really believe that then you have to also believe that there is no such thing as life, love, family, or anything.
| Kefka wrote: | Furthermore, you claim that God is everything without any supporting evidence of this, or that God does, in fact, exist.
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How much evidence would be enough? There will always be an element of faith. But it doesnt mean it contradicts science. In fact, there is more evidence to back up the validity of the Bible than any other ancient literary work ever. The bible is friggin old. I could post all the findings and whatnot to back up my statements, but it is a proven fact that some parts of the bible are dated to almost 1000BC. Jesus is proven (as much as you can prove any historical event) to have existed, teached, claimed to be the son of god, was crucified, buried, and his tomb was empty 3 days later. There are even writings of non-Christians of seeing him alive after death or hearing that he was seen by many people. Christian faith is not blind.
| Quote: | Some events of the Bible can be proved false. The story of Noah's flood, for example, is based on a large flood in the middle eastern region several thousand years ago.
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Stories in the old testament were not written to me or you, they were written thousands of years ago to people who do not understand the world like we do today. This must always be taken in context when reading old literary works, including the Bible. The flood may not have flooded the entire planet, but it may have flooded the entire world as they knew it.
Anyways, many nit-picky details of Christianity can be debated, but the overall idea, that we came from an eternal God, who has a plan, and that plan centers on Jesus, is up to everyone to accept or reject that He is the center of the world and not us. If you reject, then I hope you fully understand that you are saying there is no purpose to life, or for anything, we are just atoms that came from nothing. And that requires a lot of faith (or apathy) to believe.
I just wish more people would do a little research for themselves before making blanket statements against all of Christianity when your only knowledge is what you are told in your wacky church, or your parents, or the annoying kid at school, or TV. There is a lot of good info out there, you just gotta be careful where you get it from. Run everything through the filter of common sense. |
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Kefka
Joined: 10 May 2007 Posts: 599
HP: 100 MP: 0 Lives: 0
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:36 pm
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Personally, I agree with you totally. But I like playing the devil's advocate. |
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Elite Nerr Francis

Joined: 16 Apr 2007 Posts: 6974
HP: 50 MP: 3 Lives: 0
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:40 pm
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| Kefka wrote: | | Personally, I agree with you totally. But I like playing the devil's advocate. |
Yeah I thought so... thanks for playing. I should have joined the debate team.  |
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Kefka
Joined: 10 May 2007 Posts: 599
HP: 100 MP: 0 Lives: 0
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:41 pm
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I did join the debate team. |
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Djacwmwfin Joshamuffin Vampire

Joined: 12 Jun 2007 Posts: 3539
HP: 100 MP: 5 Lives: 0
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:03 am
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| Francis wrote: | | Super Pivot wrote: | | If so, why does he just focus on Earth? |
It's his deal, I'm sure he does other things, but you wouldnt understand it because it exists outside of the realm of time, space, and anything our finite minds could possibly understand. |
Exactly. Our minds cannot understand it. That's why somebody on crack decided to believe in stuff like gods and things. Prehistoric humans did not fully understand the universe around them. Therefore, they hypothesized that some omnipotent being, which is outside of our finity conviniently, with no beggining, no end, and infinite control. Nobody understood it, so they just (st)rolled with it. They had no way of knowing otherwise. People thought of ways to add to religion so that god couldn't lose. Somewhere I heard that God answers prayers with "yes", "no", and "wait". Those are all the options. If it happens the next day, it's "yes". If it happens later, it's "wait". And if it never happens, it's "no". Those are all the options. If we believe that something answers us like that, then there is no way of knowing if it answered or not. That is the only way that religion has survived this long.
However, I don't see how the first post was sufficient in details. In order to be that hostile, you better have a damn lot of details. You only seem like an evil person if you do stuff like that, which will only discourage people from agreeing with you.
Also, long speeches confuse people. So sometimes a long speech with giant words will sway people because it confuses them.
Religion causes lots of bad things to happen. Terrorists are often driven by their beliefs. Jainist monks have to live in poverty because their religion dictates them to do so. Jainist monks take a pledge to be poor, virgins their whole life. I wouldn't want to do that. Would you? Also, today on the news, I saw a report of a second fire on a church happened. People are commiting crimes because they believe that the faith that church practiced was wrong. On the interbutts, it causes flames.
Also, religion isn't enough for me. I'm that kid that does perfect in math and science. I want to know what the hell causes you to do things, not just think that something is using its powers to do stuff. It's too vague for me. I will not sit around and say, "The lord makes everything happen! I can't do anything about it. The lord will keep me safe!". That doesn't explain anything to me. If that is close to enough for you, you are one simple-minded person.
If monsters and fairies don't exist, what keeps God in existance? The fact that the moajority of the world believes it. Only reason.
In conclusion, HOLY WALL OF TEXT, BATMAN! |
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Elite Nerr Francis

Joined: 16 Apr 2007 Posts: 6974
HP: 50 MP: 3 Lives: 0
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:59 am
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Allow me to re-butt. I am going to assume that by "religion" you mean Christianity, since many of your statements are usually onces made about christians and not usually towards other religions. I aplogize if my assumption is incorrect.
| Joshamuffin wrote: | | If we believe that something answers us like that, then there is no way of knowing if it answered or not. |
I think most of your problems are with a few minior details about how some Chrstians think. God listens to prayers, but doesnt necessarily answer your requests. Things happen in this world, and asking God to change the inevitable just isnt going to work. He set up the univerisal laws and physics, and he's not going to break them just cause you ask him to.
| Joshamuffin wrote: | | I want to know what the hell causes you to do things, not just think that something is using its powers to do stuff. |
Who says that being a Chrstian means you have to ignore how the world works? You must be generalizing again, assuming that a few nutjobs represent all christians as a whole. Christianity embraces science as it sheds more details of God's creation.
| Quote: | | Religion causes lots of bad things to happen. |
Very true, thats why you must be very careful when investigating religions. Look at it how it began, and what the original motives were. And even if a religion looks legit, there are a billion different off-shoots of it in practice that can distort it. Man is not perfect, we will try to mess it up, no matter what good intentions there were in the beginning.
| Quote: | | If monsters and fairies don't exist, what keeps God in existance? The fact that the moajority of the world believes it. Only reason. |
The evidence for God is the existence and order of the universe. Logic, and scientific reasoning will eventually bring you to two different conculsion: It all started from God, or it all started from Nothing. God is eternal or Nothing is eternal, and neither will ever be proven 100%. Those are your choices, and each one has an impact on how you view yourself and the world.
If you choose Nothing, then you can stop now. Why debate about religion when it doesnt matter at all? (in fact, nothing matters) If you choose God, then there are other questions you will have. Thats when the details of religions becomes important because they all claim to have the answers to those questions (and many people see it as an opportunity for power) |
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